The Joel on Software Discussion Group

Would you work for a company that lists "MSCS from a top-tier university" as a requirement for employment?  (I graduated with an MSCS from Pitt which is not top-tier, but respectable - especially in AI which was my specialty.)  I got a job offer because I was recommended by one of their engineers with whom I worked.  The interviews were grueling, so I'm relatively sure they are satisfied with my abilities, but I'm really worried that once I get there, I'll automatically be looked down on by all the CMU grads.

It is their nickel - they can hire who they want.  If you are lucky, maybe they want to hire you.  Not such a bad thing I think.  Nobody gives a shit who you worked for or where you graduated from once you are part of the team.

Certainly I would. Don't worry about who will look down on you. Be tall on the inside.

I went to CMU, and I wouldn't look down on an MSCS from Pitt in AI.  Soon after you begin your first job in software development it's what you can do, how fast you can do it, and how reliable it is that determines your value.  That's what makes the elite.  If you've impressed them enough in the interview that they've made you a job offer, you are impressive enough.

In fact, CMU as a university seems to have a bit of an inferiority complex when it compares itself to MIT.

Now, I HAVE met PhD graduates who can be quite stand-offish to people who merely have their Master's degree.  However, that applies to any university.

Don’t worry about what school you graduated from.  Kick ass and take names…When it comes to academic snobs, I’ve heard it all.  I’ve even heard someone bragging about how highly acclaimed they’re public high school was…Get over it!

For the record, I went to a small public high school and a small private college (nothing special).  I didn’t even get good grades because, if I’m not interested in it, I don’t learn it.  Still, I do better then most people that graduated thinking they can get a free ride based on the school they went to.

All that matters now is kicking ass.  If people can't get over the fact that you're not a Cornell grade, use them as motivation to succeed.  It sounds like your potential employer got over it.

I worked with people from GOOD schools, and believe me, I can do my job just as good as them are, if not better.  As long as you get treated professionally, what does it matter?

That would depend on the definition of "top-tier university". Many schools are known for a certain discipline (like AI at Pitt), so depending on the work they do, if your university has a good program in it then go for it.

Personally I find requirements like this to be comical. It gives me the impression that they're not only elistist, but probably a bunch of tight-wad assholes with a superiority complex because they went to <insert name of overrated university here>.

CMU is known for software engineering, but one grad school instructor told me that they think they're the center of the SW Eng. universe.

most people from top tier universities suck; i worked with people from MIT who just asumed they were right cause they were from MIT. The reason is cause most other universities give more real programming assignments; instead of theory...for example, programmers in berekley learn prolog and never even write real code.

An MSCS from Pitt is a great acheivement.  Purchase a can of fix-a-flat from the local car part store and give your ego a boost.

" Purchase a can of fix-a-flat from the local car part store and give your ego a boost."

????

By huffing the fumes from the fix-a-flat?

I HAVE met PhD graduates who can be quite useless. It depends on what you want to do. You can do something or talk about doing something.

What does your friend on the inside say?  Even if you ARE as good as they are, it could suck socially if they refuse to consider the possibility.

Uh, 'top tier' means different things to different people...Probably they just want to screen out people with a masters from Pradeep's Learn U Up Academy.

Also keep in mind that the people who write the job description don't always clearly represent what the company culture is like.

You wouldn't be so concerned with what others thought of you if you realized how seldom they did.

One more vote to go ahead with the offer.
As far as you are going to be good at what you do, who cares what's ur academic pedigree. And the fact that they offered u the position shows u r worth ur mettal.
Best luck.

In IT, skills talk.  Diplomas walk.  Once you're in the door, you're ALL on the same playing field. 

Go for it!  and kick some ass!

I think Ranjit has just illustrated for us why they prefer to avoid people who aren't from top-tier universities.

Well I went to MIT ('90) and would avoid that place unless they're offering you a TON of money, or a lot of autonomy in an R&D kind of setting. It's likely to be very high-stress, long hours, extremely high standards, and lots of egos and temper tantrums.

I did a couple companies like that in my 20's and vowed never again (unless I owned the company)!

They're hiring you, so I guess you're good enough.

Other programmers may look down on you, but that's because programmers tend to look down on each other. If it weren't your academic history it would be something else. For example, maybe you carry your money in a green-and-blue Velcro-fastening wallet; if so, they'll look down on you for not having a Mulberry wallet. Or vice-versa.

You can get put down, you will get put down, it will hurt, and there's nothing you can do about it, so I'd just blow it off and go for what you want.

> Soon after you begin your first job in software development it's what you can do, how fast you can do it, and how reliable it is that determines your value

Then explain the "top tier Uni" requirement. I agree with you, what you list should matter more than what you did ten years ago, but there are some people who are more interested in what schools you attended than how good you are at your job.

>Then explain the "top tier Uni" requirement

It means, if you're not from a top tier university, you'd better have some serious skills and the balls to back them up.  If someone didn't apply because they didn't think they're good enough, then the requirement served it's purpose.

I concur.  I went to Shit U.  I've worked with plenty of PhD's and graduates of uber-elite colleges, and only a few of them really impressed me.  My boss has his Masters from a top-tier, and comes straight to me (before anyone else) with any technical decisions to be made.  You will earn the respect of your peers by what you do at work, not where you attended class.

- There's that echo again.

Word, Ian.

The "Top Tier Uni" line is an aid to the Human Resources people who do the first filter of incoming resumes.  I don't know whether Pitt was on their list to "allow through" or not, but that's not important now.

The HR people (and some managers, with that "cream of the crop" stuff) use this in a mistaken attempt to reduce the number of people they need to interview for a job.  The idea is if you only check people from the "top tier" (whatever that means) you need to check fewer to get the people you want (the ones who can PRODUCE are the ones you want).

But you are way past that part of the process.  You've gotten the interview, you've even gotten the job offer.  Man, you are IN!  It's now all up to you and the skills you've gotten at Pitt to produce for this company.  That's really all that is important now.

That and building a life.  Don't forget the life part.

Nobody will care where you graduated from after a year or two - probably sooner. Since I'm a graduate from a top tier university in find that very annoying, as I have to keep doing useful work or they will fire me!