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What is on this recruiter's agenda

I can't figure it out... The position I interviewed for a couple  months ago was put on hold. Every time I checked with the recruiter on it she didn't know when it will open up. So suddenly last week I got a call from the hiring manager directly who told me that the position was on hold and asked me if i am still interested. I said yes and he told me that they will be calling me soon about the next steps. I told the recruiter lady about it. She made so much fuss about that guy calling me directly that I started to regret that I ever told her. They haven't called me back so far, but she calls me every other day now to remind me that i should keep her in the loop if he calls again. She also told me that she called their HR and they said that they have 3 more candidates for phone screening this week and those candidates "are not from her". Could she give them additional people after they were already interested in me? Should I let her know if I do get another call or is it better not to?
Pippi Longstocking Send private email
Thursday, May 14, 2009
 
 
She's worried that by calling you directly, they may be trying to circumvent paying her commission. If neither you nor they keep her "in the loop" she won't know when they make an offer or for how much. She needs to know that in order to bill them. If she was first to introduce you to them she has a point.
SumoRunner Send private email
Thursday, May 14, 2009
 
 
I doubt that is the case... It's a large company that is dealing with recruiters a lot...
Pippi Longstocking Send private email
Thursday, May 14, 2009
 
 
Some recruiter are really flakey -- maybe they're trying not to deal with her specifically?
Doug Send private email
Thursday, May 14, 2009
 
 
blow off the recruiter. she doesn't matter.

yes she can send in more candidates.
Contractor Send private email
Thursday, May 14, 2009
 
 
Consequence of not calling her:

* Burning your relationship with the recruiter.
* Possible legal issues if you end up taking the job (though probably more for the company than you).
* Maybe being "blacklisted" by that recruiter among the other recruiters.

Consequences of calling her:

* Perhaps blowing your chance at this job.
* Perhaps having a smaller offer because they also have to pay her commission.

---
I guess it ultimately depends on whether you value your relationship with this recruiter more or less than this particular opportunity.  From your description, I'm not sure a relationship with this particular recruiter is all that valuable, but there's a number of factors that you would be better positioned to evaluate than I am.
John McGuinness Send private email
Thursday, May 14, 2009
 
 
here we go again with the clowns...


* Burning your relationship with the recruiter.
* Possible legal issues if you end up taking the job (though probably more for the company than you).
* Maybe being "blacklisted" by that recruiter among the other recruiters.

Consequences of calling her:

* Perhaps blowing your chance at this job.
* Perhaps having a smaller offer because they also have to pay her commission.



Burn Bridges: Recruiters come a dime a dozen. by the time you go for your next job they won't remember you anyway and there is alot of turnover at recruiter shops.

Legal consequences: you are an idiot. you are not legally bound because someoen forwarded an email. I blow off recruiters all the time.


downside

losing the job: whether you contact the recruiter or not will have no effect on you getting the job. the contract vehicle the recruiter has with the company of getting paid is between her and the company. it has nothing to do with you.

i would ignore the recruiter and tell she should contact the company herself. then i would send her to voicemail and ignore all emails. she just doesn't matter if you have contact with the client.
Contractor Send private email
Friday, May 15, 2009
 
 
I find it interesting that anyone would suggest that you should "ignore the recruiter" who initially put you in contact with the company.

Recruiters are paid by the company to find and filter talent.  Even if they are "a dime a dozen," it would be unethical to ask them to perform a service, then deliberately attempt to prevent them from getting paid once that service is performed.

Contractor - If recruiters provide little or no value, why would you engage in the relationship to begin with?
Russell Thackston Send private email
Friday, May 15, 2009
 
 
I would keep her in the loop - not because it may benefit you in the future, but because it's the right thing to do.

It's hard to do the right thing when it matters and when it's important. If you do the wrong thing when it doesn't really matter and when it's not important ... then when it does matter and it is important you may not be able to do it. Besides, how do you know when it is important and matters?

It's integrity ... in the long run, that will benefit you more than the small advantages you gain here and there from acting against it.
Larry Watanabe Send private email
Friday, May 15, 2009
 
 
Keep the recruiter in the loop++;

Sounds like a relatively new recruiter who's been burned.  Put yourself in her shoes.

Personally I would say something like this:

"Sarah, I am grateful for you for finding this lead.  I intend to make sure that, if i get the job, you get your comission.  To do otherwise would be unethical.  More than that, if the company tries to conspire with me to cut out your comission - that says a lot about how they view people, and they'd be likely to do the same to me down the road.  Don't worry about - it is simply in my own best interest to keep you in the loop.  If you have a problem with the client contacting me directly, I understand that - but you need to talk to them."


good luck,
Matthew Heusser Send private email
Friday, May 15, 2009
 
 
Honest Matt! I disagree.

If they call you directly, not much you can do about it. I wouldn't call the recruiter - it's there job. I'm all for people getting paid for a service if they earn it. But in this case the employer has decided not to use that service.
Patrick From An IBank Send private email
Friday, May 15, 2009
 
 
Patrick- How exactly did the recruiter not earn her commission (assuming the original poster gets hired)?

It is possible that the recruiter did not establish a relationship agreement with the company before referring him, in which case she blundered (from a legal sense).  But still...
Russell Thackston Send private email
Friday, May 15, 2009
 
 
Patrick,

for all you know the recruiter has been on this case for a while. She might have invested a lot of effort and lined up a dozen candidates for the position. In this case it is at least extremely questionable for the company to approach Pippi directly.
If I would respond to a demand from you with CV's and interviews, and consequently you cut me out of the loop and approach on of these directly, I'd feel very pissed of as well.

If it is a big company chances are this is just some over eager line manager wanting to cut a few corners.
Vee Send private email
Friday, May 15, 2009
 
 
I don't see that the recruiter needs to be in the loop as far as communication goes.  If the company wants to get on with hiring me, great.  I don't see that notifying the recruiter in time for them to send in more/lower priced resumes is the proper course.

It is the company that has a contract with the recruiter.  There is the possibility that if enough time has passed, the recruiter no longer has dibs on you.
Lance Hampton Send private email
Friday, May 15, 2009
 
 
good points that I don't know the whole story. But... I still don't feel it would be Pippi's job to get involved. However, I would be worried that the company would try something wheasely with me in the future.
Patrick From An IBank Send private email
Friday, May 15, 2009
 
 
I wasn't trying to bypass the recruiter. This company called me directly before to arrange all interviews and that was OK with her then... I just didn't understand why she made so much fuss about it this time. And I feel like I should give her as little information as possible. If she wants to contact the company or vice verca it is none of my business. She already mentioned that there is another candidate from her for the same position.
Pippi Longstocking Send private email
Friday, May 15, 2009
 
 
It's not really smart for her to mention multiple candidates, because when she asks "how did it go?" or "what questions did they ask?" you will be defensive and guarded.  I'd still communicate the minimum amount and try to be responsible, but yeah, watch your back.
Matthew Heusser Send private email
Friday, May 15, 2009
 
 
It's possible the recruiter has been burned before by a company circumventing her and cheating her out of a commission, so she's being extra diligent now.  That's her problem, not yours; and it's probably unfair for her to place the burden of enforcing this on you, but ther you go.

Also, if the company is exploiting some loophole where if enough days have passed then they don't have to work through the recruiter anymore so they can save themselves a little bit of money, that would be a telling sign to me about how they would treat me as an employee down the road.  <i>Well, technically, your employment contract says that...</i>
John McGuinness Send private email
Friday, May 15, 2009
 
 
In delaying their contact with you, the employer was probably trying to exclude the recruiter from the arrangement. Maybe the recruiter pushed her way in, and the employer didn't really want to deal with recruiters.

In that case, although there wouldn't have been a formal agreement between the recruiter and the employer, the employer wanted to play safe by waiting out the normal expiry time for such agreements, which is about three months.

You've ruined that plan by telling the recruiter, and probably ruined your chance at the job too.

Imagine if someone rang you and offered a new computer, but on the understanding you would have to pay them a commission. When you went and bought it directly, they threaten to sue you. That's basically the business model used by recruiters.
Aye aye Send private email
Saturday, May 16, 2009
 
 
RE: Aye aye

I don't think that is analogous to the recruiter business model.

Imagine a customer didn't know exactly what kind of computer he wanted but he KNEW that he needed a computer of some kind. While the Dell website offered him options, it did not offer many explanations and this customer didn't want to spend the next week researching the home computer market just to make an informed decision.

So this person calls up "One Aye's Computer Shop" and talks to Mr. Aye for over an hour. During that time, Mr. Aye determines that this customer needs at least X processors, Y amount of RAM, and Z hard drive space for their proposed use case.

Mr. Aye, eager to be paid for his ++hour supporting a prospective customer lets him know that he can put together this particular computer, with Vista, for $800.

The prospective customer thanks Mr. Aye. The customer tells him that he is happy with the specified computer and will call him back soon to order. Then the customer goes online to Dell's website and orders a $750 computer with roughly the same specifications.

Is that ethical?
Jon-Carlos Rivera Send private email
Saturday, May 16, 2009
 
 
You've exaggerated to try to make your point. Retailers in shops don't waste an hour on single customers; they spend about five minutes.

And, in your example, the retailer is actually providing useful, unbiased advice. But recruiters usually don't understand the work to be performed by candidates, or the candidates' capabilities, so they're in no position to provide useful advice to employers.

In any case, they are salesmen, and aim to sell their own candidates, not provide unbiased advice.

Customers shop around quite ethically, and aren't subjected to demands for commissions.
Aye aye Send private email
Saturday, May 16, 2009
 
 
In any case, a better analogy would be the case where you already know what sort of computer you want, but a salesman unconnected to the storee insists you owe them a commission.

Even better, although the salesman offers the computer to you for $800, she's actually bought it from a store for $350 and is standing to pocket more than half the price. She has contracts with both parties preventing them discussing prices, leaving her as the only person knowing the spread of prices.

She's even managed to convince lots of young candidates that it's "unprofessional" to discuss prices.

That is the model for IT recruiting.
Aye aye Send private email
Saturday, May 16, 2009
 
 
So now they want me to fly 6 hours to West Coast for a face to face interview. Meanwhile, I noticed that they posted the position directly on job boards, so they are trying to avoid the recruiters fee. I am currently working and can only take 1 day off, so it is going to be crazy if i fly there for 6 hours, interview next day and fly back for 6 hours, all for nothing. To fly or not to fly?
Pippi Longstocking Send private email
Sunday, May 17, 2009
 
 
Regardless of what you think of the recruiter's business model, the fact remains that the company opted into this model by working with the recruiter.  Now they are trying to weasel their way out.

If I were contemplating working for this company, these actions would lead me to wonder what they would try to weasel out of with respect to me.
John McGuinness Send private email
Sunday, May 17, 2009
 
 
Ignoring the questions surrounding the recruiter for a moment...

Are they paying for airfare and lodging?  Would you take the job if they offered it today?  If not, what factors do you need to resolve before making the decision?  Can any of these be resolved before going?
Russell Thackston Send private email
Monday, May 18, 2009
 
 
I would take the job if I liked it enough. Yes, they are paying for aifaire and lodging. Actually, I just asked that recruiter to find out more info for me before the flight.
Pippi Longstocking Send private email
Monday, May 18, 2009
 
 

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