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Career Restart

How many times have you restart your career?
Rick Tang Send private email
Monday, February 25, 2008
 
 
I'd say I'm on my third restart and loving every moment of it.
Grinder Send private email
Monday, February 25, 2008
 
 
None. i alway want to be in the IT but my dad get in the way. since i'm Asian. I'm expected to be a Doctor and no less. it's the curse of being Asian.
Vista64
Monday, February 25, 2008
 
 
Restart or lateral move? Is this one and the same in terms of your question?

For me, I've never had to restart, jumpstart, whatever term you want to use, for my career. I got into this business in 1999 and never looked back.

Now lateral moves are a different story. I made three lateral vocationl moves in my life before I discovered the gem that is information technology.
Brice Richard Send private email
Monday, February 25, 2008
 
 
Show your Asian father this:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/06/fashion/06professions.html?_r=2&scp=1&sq=lawyers+doctors&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

The Falling-Down Professions

Basically says that Wall Street guys and startup guys are the new doctors and lawyers.  And doctors and lawyers have been demoted to the status of "accountants" -- a safe, easy job.

A very crude summary, of course.  There is a pretty shocking anecdote about junior level lawyers doing secretarial work.

And note that I definitely ***disagree*** with the idea of measuring career status by wealth, but I do know that is a large part of the reason that Asian parents love doctors and lawyers (being Asian myself, and having those type of parents).
Moosebumps Send private email
Monday, February 25, 2008
 
 
I mean taking a reduction in income to make a lateral move, if that's the proper term.

I don't mean changing career from say an accountant to an engineer.
Rick Tang Send private email
Monday, February 25, 2008
 
 
The quality of high school graduates is so poor now that you practically need someone who has a college degree to be a clerk or office manager.

Seems like you can get out of high school these days without the ability to read or write.
Duff
Monday, February 25, 2008
 
 
Out of college with my newly minted BS CS I started off doing "higher end" QA (stuff that required coding and technical knowledge).  Of course I wanted to be in development not QA so I made a lateral move over to development after a few years of getting crapped on in QA.

But I guess many of us had to start some place less glamorous when we were green :-)
TrollySmack Send private email
Tuesday, February 26, 2008
 
 
"Show your Asian father this:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/06/fashion/06professions.html?_r=2&scp=1&sq=lawyers+doctors&oref=slogin&oref=slogin
"

Sorry, but around here we don't give links that require you to FREAKING SIGN UP to get SPAMMED.

-5 for being stupid!
TheMasterAsian!
Tuesday, February 26, 2008
 
 
"There is a pretty shocking anecdote about junior level lawyers doing secretarial work."

I have friends that are lawyers.  One was even an engineer prior to going to law school (he's of course a patent attorney now).

From what I hear it sort of sucks to be a lawyer.  You are basically a in a frat where the newbies get hazed for years and made to do all the real work.  All of your hours MUST BE billable.  So you never get a minute to rest...unless you are a partner.  It also means you have to constantly be trying to sell more services to clients...so you have to become a sales whore too.

And attorneys don't get paid as much as you might think.  Once you are a senior software engineer -- with the proper BS and MS degrees -- you can make the same or more than many (most?) lawyers.
Tight
Tuesday, February 26, 2008
 
 
"I made three lateral vocationl moves in my life before I discovered the gem that is information technology."

What did you do prior?
AsianToaster
Tuesday, February 26, 2008
 
 
"Basically says that Wall Street guys and startup guys are the new doctors and lawyers."

Well the "Wall Street guy" is probably more difficult to break into than being an MD or a lawyer.  Being a "starup guy" is easy.  I've done that a couple times.  Since the vast majority of startups fail I can't really see how being a startup guy is so hot.  Unless they mean the 0.0001% of "startup guys" that succeed.  In that case it still may be easier to be a MD or a lawyer.

All I know is that an experienced Software Engineer at Microsoft, Google, Apple, Oracle, Intel, IBM, etc. can easily make as much a lawyer.  Of course big corps also pay extra for a MS CS, a PhD CS, or an MBA.
WhichBMWShouldIDriveToday
Tuesday, February 26, 2008
 
 
I used to think MDs made a lot.  Then I found out how much some of them have to pay for insurance.  In some specialties half of your income literally goes to pay for malpractice insurance.

Makes being a software engineer seem even better!

Yet, the ladies would still rather bed a butt-ugly MD over an average looking engineer.
_zoo_
Tuesday, February 26, 2008
 
 
A question I'd like to ask the more seasoned SE's out here is how difficult such a restart proves to be. For example, let's say you're working on internal, corporate software - how feasible is a switch to system software (say, JBoss internals)? Are you pretty much locked into your specific field after the first few years of employment, or do skill and intelligence trump domain knowledge?

Thanks!
BrotherBeal Send private email
Tuesday, February 26, 2008
 
 
This probably doesn't count as a lateral move or a restart, but about 10 years ago I sort of had an "awakening" or something like that.

Prior to that I used to be a pretty typical developer: technology focused, head down coder.

Then I realized that, even though I was working hard (at least I thought so) and having fun, a lot of the projects I was working on were what you might call "troubled". I couldn't reconcile this.

Anyway, at that point, I realized I had to stop defining limits to my role and responsibilities on the projects I participated in. I'd do what needed to be done no matter how unpleasant.

Since then, I just watch for gaps in a project and try to fill them. Sometimes it's fun, sometimes it's unpleasant. But it's taken me in some interesting directions. Since then I've become a project manager, agile coach, and tester. I still work on troubled projects but now I don't feel like I'm helpless about it. All in all, it's been pretty liberating. I've also found I don't worry about technology so much anymore.

In the end, it might be a career ending move, but it hasn't hurt at all so far.
Bruce
Tuesday, February 26, 2008
 
 
There is no restart Rick, it's a long going process, and beside, you never forget what the last job has taught you.

My favorite book on the subject is still Career Warfare.
Victor Noagbodji Send private email
Tuesday, February 26, 2008
 
 
I'm in the process of my third.  I started out doing media planning at an ad agency, then started writing code about 15 years ago.  I'm heading to law school in the fall for my third career.

As far as money goes, I know I'm probably not going to get ahead of where I'm at, but at 38 with a bachelor of journalism and no experience managing groups of more than 2, I'm not going to advance much in IT without a graduate degree, which doesn't interest me as much as the law.

So I'm off to get a JD and MBA and see where that takes me
Tim Brewington
Tuesday, February 26, 2008
 
 
Uncalled for, Cowboy.  Can we have some moderation please?
none
Tuesday, February 26, 2008
 
 
When was the last time an experienced lawyer had his job outsourced to India?

Experienced lawyers are way more valuable than experienced programmers. The older a programmer gets, the less valuable he becomes. Not so with lawyers.
anony
Tuesday, February 26, 2008
 
 
"When was the last time an experienced lawyer had his job outsourced to India?"

You just haven't looked around.
Rick Tang Send private email
Tuesday, February 26, 2008
 
 
<<<"When was the last time an experienced lawyer had his job outsourced to India?"

You just haven't looked around. >>>

You can't outsource bar admittance in the jurisdiction of the case.

Tuesday, February 26, 2008
 
 
Are you suggesting we should set up unions?

:)
Rick Tang Send private email
Tuesday, February 26, 2008
 
 
"You just haven't looked around.?"

Really?

When the judge says show up at 9:00 AM Monday morning for court in San Francisco, what will the lawyer in India do about that?

Not to mention he has to be licensed to practice law in California.

No fear of outsourcing there.
anony
Tuesday, February 26, 2008
 
 
<< Are you suggesting we should set up unions?

:)
>>

I do not understand your point.
Tim Brewington
Tuesday, February 26, 2008
 
 
> Yet, the ladies would still rather bed a butt-ugly MD over an average looking engineer.

It's all about cultural status, not money.  Otherwise, the guy who owns a few coin-op laundromats makes more than the typical MD, JD, engineer, etc.  Yet, there is zero social cachet/status for that.
.
Thursday, February 28, 2008
 
 
Someone said:  "The older a programmer gets, the less valuable he becomes. Not so with lawyers."


Totally wrong.  The more OBSOLETE a programmer gets, the less valuable he becomes.  Sure, increasing age and skills irrelevance are often correlated (more distractions from career focus in your 20s), but "correlation does not imply causation".  For the same salary, expected hours, and skillset, I will take the guy with 20 years experience vs. the guy with 5.
Bella
Thursday, February 28, 2008
 
 
I spoke to an attorney a few weeks ago.  He tells me it's now common to outsource briefs to India.  The first draft is done in India, it's emailed back and the US attorney edits it, cleans up the Special English and bills the whole job at US rates.    Outsourcing has come to the legal profession.

Also, I was told recently by a Pfizer employee that all their accounting jobs have been sent overseas.  Outsourcing has now hit the accounting profession.

Actually, it's good to see this happen.  The more types of good jobs that get outsourced, the more the pain gets spread around.  That's the only way the stuff's going to hit the fan.  Spread the pain around.

Finance jobs are also heading overseas and/or L1 visa'd into the US.  The entire US professional economy will soon be on the same foundation of quicksand as IT.

Pretty soon all the smart kids will be going into plumbing, electrician work and dog grooming.
Spread the pain Send private email
Thursday, February 28, 2008
 
 

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