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The Joel on Software Discussion Group (CLOSED)

I've gone through a couple of degrees, couple of tech jobs and a startup. Now back, somewhat the richer but not enough to retire on, working for a software company. Today I realized I just can't be bothered to do my job. I'm coasting and could continue to do so for quite some time before getting called on it.. but that's just a horrible thing to do. Has anyone faced down this burnout feeling? Is it inevitable in this industry?

"Is it inevitable in this industry? "

No, not if:

1) You enjoy being an employee as opposed to what might have been considered a fully functional adult 100 years ago.

2) You enjoy extremely specialized but highly arbitrary work.

3) If you like doing relatively the same things over and over and over.

I get burned out and I think every good developer does. You need to slow down a bit, go to 40 hrs, and take a vacation or sabattical if possible. Another possibility is to switch to another specialty. Also, get some exercise. Good luck.

I would not say "inevitable" but probably more likely in the IT field in general than in other fields.
Scott is right and has good advice.  If you try all this and you still cannot get up any enthusiasm, then you really have to consider changing fields.  Otherwise, the box you will find yourself in will just keep getting smaller...

I used to product development and I found after a couple of years or so I felt burnt out simply because I was working on the same thing day in and day out. I made the move to a consulting role a few years ago and I've found that having a job where the work varies so much from customer to customer has really helped with respect to keeping interested and motivated.

Thanks for the responses. I'm doing a few things in an effort to kickstart myself. Eating better, working no more than strictly necessary, more exercise and more fun time. (Bought lots of lego!).

I definitely think part of the reason I'm feeling jaded is that I very much feel I'm in the engine room cranking out work that others get the credit for. Combined with a delusional company president who thinks that the senior engineers must fix every minor thing with his computer rather than call the IT department. He's important after all.

I'm considering a switch to another field but haven't figured out what that might be yet. Considering a microisv (which is how I wound up here) because I think seeing my work be appreciated directly might be the thing to help me break out of my funk.

Yes.

One thing I've learned (the hard way) is to tell the difference between short term and long term burnout.  Once, I quit a promising job, found a new one, and took a month off between the two to hang out on the beach and surf for a while.  When the month was over, I realized that I kind of wanted to go back to my old job, it didn't sound so bad anymore. 

This still happens to me now and then.  Fortunately, I've learned to recognize the symptoms of burnout, and my current gig gives me 4 weeks of vacation instead of two. 

Companies can hurt themselves by limiting vacation time and time off without pay, because I think a lot of good people leave when in fact they really just need some time away (a substantial amount of time).  They get this by finding a new job, quitting, and setting up a late start date.  A small "sabbatical" of a month or two might have enabled their companies to keep them. 

If you've been working for a couple of years with only a few weeks off, of course you're going to feel burned out!

A small "sabbatical" of a month

I'm quibbling, but I'd like for normal vacation lengths to be called vacations and not sabbaticals. Otherwise we end up with companies saying 'we have awesome benefits - we even allow you a 4 week sabbatical every 7 years!"

Formally, a sabbatical is a FULL YEAR off, once every seven years.

A vacation is 4-10 weeks off every year.

10 days off isn't even what most places in the world have for state holidays. It's certainly not a vacation.

Meghraj -

I agree with your definition.  A sabbattical really should be something six months or more.  In the academic world, it means a year.  It was wierd to hear my friends refer to company "sabbaticals" of a month, but there you go.  Vacation time is pretty paltry in the US.

Actually, I read an article a couple years ago about the number of days of vacation taken per year on average in different countries.  In the US it was 13.  The next lowest?  Japan (supposedly the land of people working themselves to death) at 25.  Almost twice the US.  And many European countries clocked in in over 40 days a year.

So yeah, your average Italian would probably look bewilered if you said you were taking a once-every-seven-year sabbatical that isn't as long as his typical yearly vacation.

We just had a coworker come back from the Tokyo office, where he was putting in 12 hour days, and felt obligated to do so because everyone around him was doing so as well.  Possibly Saturday also but I can't remember.  I'll take my 40 hour weeks and 15 days off over their 60 hours and 25 days off, thanks.

"Once, I quit a promising job, found a new one, and took a month off between the two to hang out on the beach and surf for a while.  When the month was over, I realized that I kind of wanted to go back to my old job, it didn't sound so bad anymore. "

Thanks Geoff, good advice. I have a massive case of indecision right now because I fear I'll regret drastic decisions made in my current mood. I'm tempted to quit, travel for a month or two and then move somewhere new and start fresh at a more relaxed pace.

I think that the movement among companies to call 4 weeks a sabbatical is a a psychological move, a way of keeping the chains on the slaves. They don't seriously believe 4 weeks is a sabbatical, but they think by calling it this, the workers will not dare to ask for or expect even a 3 week vacation without it being seen as as extraordinary act of benevolence and generosity from their master.

Yes, 40 days is not uncommon in Europe. That is two months. Per year.

When you talk to people from other countries about getting 10 days per year, they have absolutely no idea how that could work. "Are you a farm animal?" they ask.

When the law of wage slavery is called the "Right to Work" law, what do you expect?

Capital = the accumulation of surplus labor

>have for state holidays.

The more or less absolute minimum in the USA is New Years Day, Memorial Day (end of May), 4th of July (Independence Day), Labor Day (Monday early in September), Thanksgiving Day (always on Thursday, many companies have the Friday as a company holiday also), and Christmas.

Yes, I have worked at a company that had that - five paid holidays, ten days vacation, no sick leave.

Pay was mediocre too.

I've worked at a place that had ONE paid holiday - Christmas. Big company too.

And I've never worked at a company that gave Labor Day off - that's a bank and government holiday. It's as rare to get off in private industry as Columbus Day.

I get ZERO paid holidays, not even Christmas.  It all falls under Paid Time Off.

Traditionally when this topic comes up the american companies say "Well, you don't have any healthcare or pension and you have to work 80 hrs a week and you have only 10 days of floating time off per year, including sick pay, but your salary is so much more than that of the europeans and there are less taxes!" However, the dollar has collapsed to half where it was a few years ago, so that effectively doubles European salaries compared to the US. Also, I don't believe that our taxes are lower. When I add everything up, Social Security, state medicaid, unemployment insurance, state income tax, state sales tax, federal income tax, fuel tax, booze tax, etc, it comes to about 70% of my income. Are european taxes greater than 70%?

In America, the richer you are, the lower your effective tax. Not so in Europe.

I think that's only true for those rich enough to keep Swiss bank accounts and other dodgy overseas tax shelters, or a lot of deductibles. On the other hand there is now the AMT (alternative minimum tax) that you have to pay if you have too many deductibles. The basic tax code definitely assesses more the higher your income. However, you then read how Bill Gates or whoever paid no taxes, or just some 1/10% of their income. Very few people have access to the sort of accountants and lawyers that can arrange that sort of thing.

There's a cap on the income which goes into social security tax, probably around $95k, so if you made 200k you'd be paying as much as someone making $95k.  Effectively making your taxes lower as a percentage of income.  Figure in things like taxes on food (which will also be a lower expenditure as a percentage of income as your income goes up) and sales tax in general, and yes, as you make more money your overall income going to taxes can decrease even as you enter a higher bracket.

Taxes also depend very heavily on how you aquired your money. 

If you go to a job every day and work for 100K, you'll pay payroll taxes, federal income and state income.  Those can easily add up to 40% of your income or more. 

If you cash in long term capital gains of 100K (ie., you bought a stock a long time ago, and are selling it for a 100K gain), you'll pay a 15% capital gains.

If your grandma bought the stock a long time ago and you sell it for a 100K gain, you'll pay no taxes whatsoever.  You can also earn 100K tax free by flipping houses.

Through our tax code, our government discourages wealth building through labor, mildly encourages wealth building money through investment, and highly encourages weath building through real estate.  But the US government loves wealth through inheritance most of all.

>>You can also earn 100K tax free by flipping houses.


If you live in it 2 years, then you can roll over up to 250k.

If you don't live in it, then it's treated the same as any capital gain (income tax rate if held less than 1 year, capital gains tax rate if it's held more than 1 year). Even then, if the IRS thinks you're a dealer instead of an investor, they can tax you at the income rate instead of the cap gains rate.