The Joel on Software Discussion Group (CLOSED)

A place to discuss Joel on Software. Now closed.

This community works best when people use their real names. Please register for a free account.

Other Groups:
Joel on Software
Business of Software
Design of Software (CLOSED)
.NET Questions (CLOSED)
TechInterview.org
CityDesk
FogBugz
Fog Creek Copilot


The Old Forum


Your hosts:
Albert D. Kallal
Li-Fan Chen
Stephen Jones

I hate office 2007

<RANT>
Ok it just took me 4 minutes to find a way to print in Excel 2007.  Ok I got the first one printed to the default printer in about 2 minutes but I still needed to print it to my PDF, so from the FREAKING PAGE LAYOUT I was able to change the printer, but still, WTF is my File->Print or whatever is suspose to replace it!!!
</RANT>

Yes I'm sure I can do a whole lot more this new ribbon bar, but geeeezzzzz god help IT support in a place with 2000 workstations that upgrades when people need to do what they did everyday and are trying to figure it out.
anon
Friday, February 23, 2007
 
 
yes, my wife was cussing it out the other day ago. they installed it at her work without any training or notice.
Patrick From An IBank Send private email
Friday, February 23, 2007
 
 
Hey what do you know, who would have that that stupid little squiggle thing in the upper left cornor of the screen is a button with all the stuff on it
anon
Friday, February 23, 2007
 
 
They just "upgraded" some of the systems here to Office 2007.

What a piece of crap. Talk about flat out copying the Macintosh, and they did a lousy job at that too. It's practically unusable because the menus are so convoluted.

The people responsible for the crappy GUI should be dragged into the road and shot...
QADude Send private email
Friday, February 23, 2007
 
 
Anyone that can make up a Skinned Theme to make office 2007 look & work more like Office 2003/XP will make a mint.  I'd pay $20 for something like that and I bet alot of companies would to, just to save on user training & lose of productivity trying to find something.

You can't just suddenly change 10+ years of a standard menus cause they feel like it.  This is one stupid upgrade.
Lee
Friday, February 23, 2007
 
 
"What a piece of crap. Talk about flat out copying the Macintosh, and they did a lousy job at that too. It's practically unusable because the menus are so convoluted."

when did Apple make an app with the Ribbon style GUI?
.
Friday, February 23, 2007
 
 
Can I add a "me too"?

First problem was to figure out how to enable macros in Excel. Instead of giving you the option on the warning dialog, it just adds a new button on the ribbon that you're supposed to notice and click on. If it's configured so that you don't get the button, good luck figuring out how to turn it on; the option is buried about 3 dialogs deep, starting behind that button in the corner that doesn't look like a button.

Once I got that figured out, it was time to try out the macro. Immediate error 1004. They made a change in the way Copy works on worksheets; it doesn't want to copy a worksheet from one workbook to another anymore. Since that was the very first thing my code tried to do, I was stuck. I finally figured out the workaround - add a blank worksheet, then copy all the cells.

Finally I got to see the results. My charts were all mucked up, the legend was overlaid on the graph and the labels were truncated after the first character. I finally just gave up and said that henceforth, this spreadsheet needs 2003 to run. I'll look at it again when my frustration level has gone down a bit.
Mark Ransom Send private email
Friday, February 23, 2007
 
 
I have it on MSDN. If it's anything like IE7, I'll never install it. IE7's lack of a "File" menu is a complete nightmare.
Anon
Friday, February 23, 2007
 
 
Personally I quite like the Ribbon. It _did_ take a bit of getting used to, and any company who rolls it out to a lot of end user desktops without any notice or training deserves all it gets, but for me, personally, I find it better to work with than Office 2003.

I've not got much good to say about IE7 though...
Robert Moir Send private email
Friday, February 23, 2007
 
 
> I have it on MSDN. If it's anything like IE7, I'll never install it. IE7's lack of a "File" menu is a complete nightmare.

What - you mean like the "File" menu you get when you press ALT? Or that you can turn on full-time by right-clicking in the toolbar area and selecting 'Menu bar' from the context menu?

I love it when people say stuff without bothering to check their facts first.

Now I will admit that the Ribbon takes a while to get used to. But again, you can customise the environment more than most people seem to realise. The Quick Access Toolbar that you find to the immediate right of the Office button in the top left corner is customisable - you can add whatever commonly used functions you like there. And if you right-click on it and check 'Show Quick Access Toolbar below the Ribbon' you get a full-width strip of space for frequently used commands and functions. And of course you can tell the Ribbon to minimise when not in use so you don't have to look at it if you don't want to.
.NET Guy
Friday, February 23, 2007
 
 
I'm not going to bother learning it until it's installed at work. Just switched to OpenOffice.org at home :)
Jivlain
Friday, February 23, 2007
 
 
Pssshhht. Typical Mac users think everything was invented at Apple. Nothing to see here.
Wayne B Send private email
Friday, February 23, 2007
 
 
> Pssshhht. Typical Mac users think everything was invented at Apple. Nothing to see here.

Dude. You're making me feel like the Geico Cave Man. Please stop.
Aaron
Friday, February 23, 2007
 
 
I am always surprised by how conservative developers are. This type of comments are a recurring theme. I remember the introduction of Windows (rcommand line versus graphical interface debate), followed by Windows 95 and the Start button, and may others.

By introducing a different approach to the toolbar Microsoft is giving you the oportunity to learn something new. If you really don't like it don't use it. There are other options like Openoffice and Office 2003. I quite like the Ribbon even though it has been a bit challenging to get some things done. I don't yet know if it better than the toolbar but it is certainly good enough.
JSD Send private email
Saturday, February 24, 2007
 
 
The new "ribbon" interface is excellent and makes Office 2007 the most significant Office upgrade in a decade or more. For once, Microsoft PR has it right.

And this thread looks like the right time to pull out Bored Bystander's stereotype of autistic developers. I can't believe people feel threatened and confused by a row of obvious, nice-looking, clearly labeled, context-sensitive controls -- just because they're used to deeply nested, illogically structured text menus!

Really, the only thing that's even minimally confusing is the that you need to press the round logo button to access filel operations. That takes how long to figure out, maybe ten seconds -- once?
Chris Nahr Send private email
Saturday, February 24, 2007
 
 
I like Office 2007.  However, that upper-left Office icon being the "everything else" menu is a WTF.  It's not obviously pushable, and it doesn't have a design that screams "click here for things you can't find in the ribbon".  Supposedly it flashes the first time you start an Office app, but I don't recall seeing that, and even if it was, it wouldn't make me think "push this!".  Not to mention in certain environments, you're not the first person to launch the application anyway.

Once you get past that non-intuitive bit, then Office 2007 becomes much more usable.  There are still a few other oddities that take learning, such as in Word, the Document Properties being under something called "Prepare", which is not the verb I think of when I am changing them.

Overall I am having positive feelings to the product suite and the new design.
Dan Fleet Send private email
Saturday, February 24, 2007
 
 
+1 to Chris Nahr.

I also like Office 2007. Most people I know who have used it (non-computer people, mind you, not the technorati that live here) all had no problems finding out how to print, or that you can press the office button to get a menu. The only time I had problems with the ribbon is when I tried to out-think it, and come up with some clever reason to find "paste" on the format tab or something.

Relax -- there aren't that many places for things to be on the ribbon, which is kind of the point. You'll find it eventually.
Tim Sullivan Send private email
Saturday, February 24, 2007
 
 
You said it, OP. To the "progressive" posters here, please read on --

I *loved* the new interface the first time I installed 2007. But then the time came to do actual work (in Word, in my case).

Now I used to be a decent 'power user' in Word, to the extent that I was once jokingly called 'the king of formatting' -- I could take a fax of an infernal document and reproduce it down to the pixel in Word (useful when you do translations).

Word 2007 didn't let me do anything I knew how to do so well in 2003. Paragraphs, borders, shading, formatting options, table settings -- where were they? After hours of wading, in an act of cowardice that can only be described as 'human', I copped out and reverted to the homey 2003.

Note: it doesn't help that the ribbon takes about 1/3 of vertical space, which on a widescreen laptop leaves you with a thin band to poke your actual work in. You can hide the ribbon, but how many times can you unhide/hide it when you need access to the functionality...
x the cowardly user
Saturday, February 24, 2007
 
 
-----"IE7's lack of a "File" menu is a complete nightmare."----

IE7 has a "File" menu in the place you would expect it to be on the menu bar. Of course if you hide the menu bar you don't get the file menu, or any other.
Stephen Jones Send private email
Saturday, February 24, 2007
 
 
Actually, if you measure it, the ribbon takes up less space than the standard menu + toolbars did in Office 2003.
Chris Tavares Send private email
Saturday, February 24, 2007
 
 
"By introducing a different approach to the toolbar Microsoft is giving you the oportunity to learn something new."

No, by designing a different interface, they give people an excuse to whine about getting an Office upgrade. If the new guy next to you with a new PC has better software than his boss, the boss will "need" Office 2007. And then the boss will start emailing .xmlx attachments, and they'll buy Office 2007 for everyone because the 2003 xmlx converter is slow.

IE7 is the same thing. The file menu is hidden unless you click alt or whatever -- the default behavior is that it is hidden, which is contrary to everything that people know about Windows.

Microsoft already created a pretty good OS and Office suite, so now its all about herding the sheep (ie. you) along the way to shear off some more cash.
Duff Send private email
Tuesday, February 27, 2007
 
 

This topic is archived. No further replies will be accepted.

Other recent topics Other recent topics
 
Powered by FogBugz