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Design site - css tableless?

How do you desing the look and feel on your websites?

1. Are you using grid layout or not - why/why not?

2. Are you using tables in the html code or are you using tables in the design mode (visual design of tables)

3. I always thought that tables in html mode was the old asp way to design webpages and should not be used in

4. Is it difficult to use tableless desgin (css) in - can you point me to some examples? is a tableless css site.


John mm
John mm
Wednesday, December 15, 2004
Why should ASP.Net dictate how you should do you HTML layout. I know it trys to, but it shouldn't.

Anyway (enough rant), this site has some good css examples -
Gary van der Merwe Send private email
Wednesday, December 15, 2004
The more you rely on the server controls to produce HTML for you, the less control you will have over the HTML that your site produces. That includes layout. Since most of this stuff was developed in the late 90s by people who were much better at programming than at HTML, you're going to have problems. Generally speaking, going whole-hog with the server controls is fine if:

1. You don't mind 1999-style tag soup
2. You don't mind that non-IE browsers will get 1996-style tag soup
3. You don't care how far from valid your HTML is
4. You don't care about accessibility

If you're trying to use css heavily, items 1, 2, and 3 are going to cause major headaches for you. You can always output HTML by hand, of course, just like in classic asp. That's what I've been doing, although I'm gradually starting to create my own server controls that do the right thing.

Reinventing the wheel is usually to be avoided, but it's an acceptable solution when the existing wheel is square.
comp.lang.c refugee
Wednesday, December 15, 2004
I can't stand the WebForms designer in VS.NET.  It finds new and amazing ways to mangle my HTML every time I accidentally switch to design mode.

There are some issues with a lot of the ASP.NET controls, but they're not all bad.  The Repeater control has a nice balance of power and control (if you don't want to use tables, you don't have to!), and the DataGrid, while somewhat complicated, is nice for data that DOES belong in a table format.
Lurker Indeed
Wednesday, December 15, 2004
I recently did an ASP.NET intranet app for a local company and it was pure validating XHTML 1.1 strict/CSS that ran on IE6.

It wasn't difficult, just made the pages the normal way and then substituted appropriate server controls where needed. I did everything by hand though I did use Visual Studio. It was more useful for the tabbed windows, auto-completion, and coloring, automated building, and debugging though.
Not Seeing The End Of The World Send private email
Wednesday, December 15, 2004
Yeah - you have to fight VS.NET if you want decent mark-up out of it. It can be done, but it's needlessly complicated. You also need to tell it not to send different markup to different browsers.

IMO the level of abstraction in ASP.NET is just too high by default. It tries to hide the way a stateless system works, and tries to hard the fundamentals of developing web apps. It might be fine for those people that don't need to worry about the underlying quality of output, and just want a "just works" solution, but it's a real pain in the arse for others.

It's all very well rolling your own controls, but this is a major product, with a big development team. There's no reason MS couldn't have got this right. The knowledge is there for them to use as much as it is the rest of us.
Andrew Cherry Send private email
Thursday, December 16, 2004
Lurker Indeed: Good point about the repeater control. As far as I can tell, that thing gives complete control over the HTML it produces. I use it all the time.
comp.lang.c refugee
Thursday, December 16, 2004
Thank you all for great answers.
As I thought it is more difficult than it seems to use css and tableless and VS.

"Not Seeing The End Of The World":
It would be great if I could get some more info about you project and even see the page and design.
Even better if you can post some tips and trick you learned along the way.

Thank you all
John mm
Thursday, December 16, 2004

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