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"Why I chose Python over Ruby"

RunFatBoy.net
Wednesday, August 23, 2006
 
 
"class A:
    def test(self):
        a = "test"
        b = "test 2"
        c = [a, b]
        return c

class A
    def test
        a = "test"
        b = "test 2"
        c = [a, b]
    end
end"

Well, writing 'self' all the time is a bit annoying.

So is writing end all the time :)
Rick Tang
Wednesday, August 23, 2006
 
 
the problem is people love hype, my manager heard about RoR and start to talk about it like he know how to program and a engineer pickup and start making basic app with RoR and mysql from someone who packaged all into one neat package for linux/apache. all he did was follow some tutorial on the net and already have a functional little web app but he have no deep knowledge of programing or OOP concept.

when you make it too easy for people to program...it create shitty programers. RoR is like VB6 for web development, easy to learn and use but can't really teach you much unless you learn programing the traditional way.
TripleDots
Wednesday, August 23, 2006
 
 
Why I choose Ruby over Python, any second:
"Syntax coloring makes a world of difference, when you need it."
http://ralip.com.br/jp/blog/post.rb?p=syntax-coloring-makes-a-world-of-difference-when-y

:-)

And I don't need RoR, too. hehe.

Deep down, I think Ruby programmers have more fun than Python programmers. Python programmers seem always in learning mode, not in enjoyment mode. Now that I have shared this moment of joy, let me read the article. Hehe. Thanks. Cheers.
Lostacular
Wednesday, August 23, 2006
 
 
Python has indentation rules? Sounds like COBOL. ;-)
MBJ Send private email
Wednesday, August 23, 2006
 
 
To summarise the article:

  - Ruby is a more elegant _language_
  - Python has a more mature and faster VM/interpreter
  - Python has a wider selection of mature libraries
 
Fair enough.
AndrewR
Thursday, August 24, 2006
 
 
>Python has indentation rules? Sounds like COBOL. ;-)
It's more like FORTRAN!

It uses indentation to mark loops/functions etc, like C but without the braces.
Very odd at first and extremely annoying when your team uses different tab settings in their editors or you copy some code from a web page and it losses all formating.

Advantages are that everyones code looks the same - you don't have to adapt to someone elses brace style to read the code.
Martin Send private email
Thursday, August 24, 2006
 
 
"the problem is people love hype, my manager heard about RoR and start to talk about it like he know how to program and a engineer pickup and start making basic app with RoR and mysql from someone who packaged all into one neat package for linux/apache. all he did was follow some tutorial on the net and already have a functional little web app but he have no deep knowledge of programing or OOP concept."

Oh no. Sounds like when people first unwrapped copies of Microsoft Access. Still, gave me a few years of work fixing databases with a single table of fields called "order number 1", "order number 2" through to "order number 20".

People are jumping on the 37Signals/Rails thing because the philosophy sounds great. Their "Getting Real" book includes chapters like "Design the interface first", "Meetings are toxic" and "Scale Later". All very seductive to people who just want to get going without doing any of that boring user analysis and data modelling work.

I saw it all before when GUIs first arrived, and people said the same thing. That you didn't need to go and do all the analysis, you could just sit and paint the screen with them. Except that it then meant systems were built that didn't do what people wanted.
Tim Almond Send private email
Thursday, August 24, 2006
 
 
Rails has all the hype.

There was a funny 'blob' set up that laughs at this.
The guy who wrote is now dead though :(

http://railsblob.blogspot.com/2006/08/rails-avoiding-code-flatulentce.html

Thursday, August 24, 2006
 
 
Why I prefer Python: fewer obnoxious evangelists.  Yeah, it's stupid to pick a language based on its users rather than its technical merits and applicability to the job in hand, but it's what a lot of people do.

Seriously, Ruby guys, just shut up about how much fun you're having.  You're behaving like new mothers who can't stop talking about how wonderful and perfect and unique their first baby is.  It's just another programming language.  Get over it and start presenting us with meaty examples of how it's actually useful in the real world, not cute five-line examples and that cool little thing where Rails knows "people" is the plural of "person", and did you know Ruby said "mama" yesterday, isn't she just the cleverest little baby ever?

Python users are past that phase.  I can actually read discussions of Python without feeling queasy.  That more than makes up for it not having the cutest ickle tootsie-toes ever.  Er... sorry, I meant "blocks".
Iago
Thursday, August 24, 2006
 
 
Ruby != Rails.
Lou Send private email
Thursday, August 24, 2006
 
 
Iago, that coming from an academic type is even funnier.

Check out these numbers of the RubyForge* site, which hosts Ruby projects:

Hosted Projects: 1,965
Registered Users: 8,429

Those numbers are growing by the hundreds every month.

Also, check out the interviews with Ruby/Rails programmers here:
http://www.puneruby.com/blog/

Maybe they will show some real world examples of their own.

Here you may find some real-world live examples of Rails:
http://www.rubyonrails.org/applications

Ruby has examples of its own, but nowadays Rails has taken over the Google searches and I can't find the webpage that easy. Which means, web projects make up most of the Ruby projects, at least.

If you use Mongrel to host your webframework, it means you can use any of the dozens of webframeworks that exist in Ruby and the performance should be great. Also, if you want to create your own framework or simple web layer or etc, Mongrel fits the bill, too. Mongrel is based on the ideas of a simple webserver made with Java, so its architecture is test and tried, and Ruby on the web has been enjoying it, and I have been enjoying it, too.

In RealWorld (TM), not everything is accessible or public.

* http://rubyforge.org/
Lostacular
Thursday, August 24, 2006
 
 
I hadn't read all of those interviews with Ruby/Rails programmers yet, but I think this one might be interesting, even from an academic point of view:

<quote>
Satish Talim>> How did you learn Ruby and when?

Topher Cyll>> When I started work at Intel, Python was my favorite language. The two dynamic languages approved for my team were Perl and Ruby. I sure wasn’t going to write any more Perl than I absolutely had to (I’m allowed to say that as someone who has written too much Perl over the years ;-) .

I’d been wanting to learn Ruby for a while anyways, so I just dived in. Wow, what a great language. In a few months, it had replaced Python as my usual tool.
</quote>
http://www.puneruby.com/blog/?p=66
Lostacular
Thursday, August 24, 2006
 
 
Lostacular,

But you have to admit -- saying a language is fun all the time is boring.
Rick Tang
Thursday, August 24, 2006
 
 
Rick, maybe. But there's one thing one gotta know:
* a movement does not depend on one person;

So whatever I say, "like it's fun" or whatever, is just my way of expressing some achievement sometimes. Online communities have that purpose as well.

For the most part, I consider Java "owned" on the web front by Ruby, and this is the first time that I say that, motivated by my own recent experiences with Ruby and my projects with it. Is that better to say? Don't know. But it's as true as I try to be to myself.

For instance, Why the Lucky Stiff has been quietly responsible for many of the energy that brings new programmers to Ruby, or that keeps the current ones entertained so they don't leave it. :-) But he plays it openly and is joyful, because his life allows that. :-)

It's the same kind of energy of the Rails guys, because they create conferences, write books, etc.

What's an adjective or one person in such a movement? Nothing. So the naysayers can't do anything about it, like to pretend that "it's not all that", or that "it's just hype". Or whatever. Really. It's not an academic choice. It's not pushed by some major company. It's a choice by the people.
Lostacular
Thursday, August 24, 2006
 
 
I like Ruby more than Python, don't get me wrong :)

But I don't think the difference is that big and saying it's fun, compared with python, it's a bit childish.
Rick Tang
Thursday, August 24, 2006
 
 
I've created my set of Ruby tools, remember that. To me, Ruby is easier than starting fresh with any other tool, even Python.
Lostacular
Thursday, August 24, 2006
 
 
And my experience with Ruby says to me that it has the potential to become even better in its offerings. Ruby on Rails is just the first and most important. Some other tool, mainly when easy to use and coupled with an IDE/Editor of some kind, can do wonders of its own. For instance, imagine if TextMate was cross-platform, so one did not need to own a MacOSX to use it. The potential for Ruby is greater than to Java at this point in time.
Lostacular
Thursday, August 24, 2006
 
 
Iago,

----
Why I prefer Python: fewer obnoxious evangelists.

Python users are past that phase.  I can actually read discussions of Python without feeling queasy.  That more than makes up for it not having the cutest ickle tootsie-toes ever.  Er... sorry, I meant "blocks".
----

That's one of the things that drew me into Python. How level headed, practical and pleasant all the Python users I've come across are. They're like the people you meet in the c#/.net area. They just want to get on with doing their jobs better.

I'm of the opinion that Rails is powering little more than misspelt build-to-flip Web 2.0 solutions.
Tim Almond Send private email
Friday, August 25, 2006
 
 
Yep, Ruby and Rails are not practical... Here's an example of one of those interviews:

<quote>
Satish Talim>> What applications, utilities have you developed in Ruby and what platform are you running these applications on?

Peter Cooper>> Since 2004 I’ve developed about ten different Ruby on Rails applications that are currently live. One of the most popular has been Code Snippets, a tagged code snippet sharing site. It now has about 2000 snippets and gets about 7000 unique visitors per day. Another major system I maintain is Feed Digest, an RSS / Atom feed processing and management tool used by 20,000 various webmasters, librarians, and scientists. While the back-end is written in Perl, the entire user facing interface is Ruby on Rails based. I also developed GoDefy.com, a comparison shopping engine portal. All of my Ruby on Rails sites run on Redhat Enterprise Linux using Apache 2 and FastCGI, although I have recently moved one to Mongrel as a test. At home I develop and test solely on Mac OS X.
</quote>

That's a bunch of Web 2.0 projects set to fail, old man.
Lostacular
Friday, August 25, 2006
 
 
Are there plans for a Ruby compiler to native code?
some guy
Friday, August 25, 2006
 
 
You can kind of compile Ruby to native code, but it needs to be converted to C first, just like Smalltalk does I think, though in their case it's the base of their system, of their core.

Much of the Ruby libraries are compiled to native code already.

In my case, I'm afraid that if I tried to compile my Ruby code to native code I would lose quite a lot of features of Ruby, its libraries and my libraries.

Now, if you cheat it by creating some kind of JIT, then I think it's possible. And there's desire to create JIT once Ruby 2.0 with its Virtual Machine has been released.
Lostacular
Friday, August 25, 2006
 
 

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