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So I have an interview with a software company in Seattle.  Their HR department is asking for my expected salary before the interview.  I'm not familiar with the area and I've looked at salary.com but it seems high.  How do you determine what a good asking salary is?

Also the area I currently work in has a lower cost of living so my salary is lower.  Should I even tell them my current salary?

Oh yea, I have 5.5 years of experience as a software engineer, and I'm about to finish up my masters in Software Engineering.  I appreciate any suggestions that are given.

Thanks!

They asked for your expected salary so you don't need to tell them your current at this time.

Have a look at the Robert Half Technology 2006 Salary Guide.

http://tinyurl.com/htolh

This is a dumb game that is written into every "HR for Dummies" book.  The illogic is that we will pay $100 but if you only ask for $50 then woo-hoo we "saved" the company money. 

Only if the employee is a moron.  What will happen is they will get on-site figure out they are grossly underpaid and hate the company for it.  Then they will either leave _OR_ stay with low morale.  Those however are not HR's problem.

I just went through the same thing when I looked at leaving consulting to take a director of IT position. I knew it was over as soon as I would not play the game. 

Corp HR:"What salary are you looking for so we know if we should even continue the process?"
ME: "What is your salary range and I can tell you if you are"
Corp HR:"Well, that is confidential"

In the end, she could not get over I wanted them to make an offer, not me.  But I am almost positive she gets something from "He wanted X, I gave him Y (Y<X), so she claims an X-Y in savings.

My suggestion - If you must tell them, figure out what you _want_ to make.  If they pay it, be happy.  If not you were going to be denied anyway.  I would also say they will not dump you if you ask for $60,000 and the range is 52-58,000.  They will negotiate you down or if they do not, then they were really looking at $50,000.  In which case, you did not want it anyway.

I would be curious what you do and how it works out.

**Disclaimer I am only now getting coffee and the Corporate HR mindset is ticking me off lately. (And I consult)

If price is what determines whether they will hire you, do you want to work there? Remember Joel's "best tool money can buy" mantra? That applies to employees too (moreso, if anything), and if they quibble over paying what you are worth then they'll probably be cutting corners elsewhere as well.

I would agree that the mere presence of an HR hack at this point tends to indicate you're not dealing with a company that values skill over anything else.

However, that is reality for most of us. I was going to post a few tips but MSHack covered most of them.

In my last job search I resolved to just be brutally honest every step of the way. At one point I was asked how much I wanted. I said essentially:

- Here's what I make now and what I do to earn it.
- I expect expanded responsibilities in this new position so I'd want a raise
- We can negotiate on the size of that raise. I will enter into those negotiations in good faith to try to find a level we can both be happy with.
- If I get the sense you're trying to screw me at any time, I'll walk. This includes after I've accepted the position.

I'm sure that closed a few opportunities for me very early, but they probably wouldn't have worked out anyway.  I did get a few laughs, so I also believe some companies appreciated the honesty. Anyway, it all worked out in the end.

Good luck.

There was a humongous thread on salaries here a few days ago.  Find it and hunt through, seeing if you can find any from Seattle.

Personally, I don't waste time with the "No, _you_ say a number first" game.  I figure out what I want to make and ask for it.  Either they say yes, and I'm happy, or they say no, and I look elsewhere.

(I did run into one place that followed up "What are you looking to make?" with "Well, what's the minimum you'd accept?"  It turned out their range was _way_ below what I was looking for.)

I follow something similar to Kyralessa.

I know what I want going in.  If I am not really looking for a new position, then I shoot high.  Like 10-20% higher than what I normally ask.

If I really need a position, then I go with what I want (not what I need to live on).

So far, it hasn't turned out very well where I live, but I refuse to move, so my target market is limited.

Read Ask the HeadHunter's take on the whole salary thing:

http://www.asktheheadhunter.com/faqsalary1.htm and the other two parts....

"The first person to mention a number loses."

- An experienced negotiator.

seen many, and contributed to, threads such as this in the past. i've been thru this very situation many times now. the first couple, were 'take what you are given' in terms of salary. the last couple were negotiated. i came across -'salary negotiation - how to make a thousands dollars a minute' or something of that nature.

a goldmine of information. if you are jobhunting, go get this book/audiotape.  the company HR reps you will deal with are trained in how to do this. you, i am assuming, are not.  you are at a disadvantage.

to sum up the above headhunter link, and straight from the book/tape above : the only reason HR peeps ask for your salary or state 'this position pays xxk per year, if that isnt' acceptable there is no reason to continue the interviews' (yes, that was actually stated to me verbatim in an interview) IS TO SCREEN YOU. THE LESS THEY PAY OUT FOR YOU, THE BETTER THEY LOOK TO THE COMPANY.  sad, really.

this completely disregards the employees morale, and whole 'win-win' type of negotiation. it is a big part of why i left my last job.

after 7 years of corporate politics, cubicles, and managers who never read 'peopleware' - i took a job consulting. now i am genuinely happy with my salary, and when i speak the client listens to me.

Also, like any other kind of haggling, the only way to really win is for it to be equally acceptable for you to (a) get the salary you ask for, or (b) walk away.  If you can't walk away, then you'll end up at a lower salary.

Now certainly there is a salary at which you'd walk away no matter what.  Perhaps you know for a fact that if a place offered you 100K/year, you'd take it, no question; whereas if they offered you 20K/year, you'd laugh in their faces and walk away.  Somewhere in between there is a number that marks the border between "take it" and "leave it".  The HR person's goal is to find that number.

In the negotiation I referred to earlier, my "Gee whiz, it'd be nice to have this much" number was 8K/year higher than my "this much or I walk away" number.  As it turned out, even the latter number was 9K higher than their maximum...so I walked.  However, the "or else I walk" number also varies based on company, location, hours and flexibility of hours, and other such stuff.

If you get the "it'd be nice" number, you win.  If you get the "minimum or I walk" number, it's a compromise.  If you set a minimum and then, against your better judgment, go below to get the job, then you lose, and you clearly didn't know what your real minimum was.  You need to have decided that number going in, or you can easily lose your nerve and end up with a not-so-great salary.

Sorry, Anon "The first person to mention a number loses" is a mind-fuck game when it comes to an employment interview.

By that logic, you get a complete stand-off.  Two otherwise mature adults saying to each other "I'm not going first.  You go first.  No, I'M not going first, YOU go first."  I've had interviews like that.  Why even interview if you're going to play those kinds of mind-games?

We're engineers here.  We provide a service to our companies.  They provide that service to their customers.  Those services have costs involved.  We get a salary.

There IS an industry standard range of salaries for each position.  It doesn't hurt an interviewee to know what that range is, and where he wants to fit in that range, going in to the interview.

Now, that range moves based on country, where you are in that country, what the job is, what the needed skills are, and your maturity in those needed skills.  But you can still find out.

And if in doubt ask a little high.  You can always negotiate down.  Do know what the minimum you'll accept is, and don't go below that number.

fwiw, I requested the RHT salary guide and after filling in scads of personal details and my work address (defensible, I'm in charge of hiring some people) I got an email saying it's only available for download. grr.

For the greater good, here's the link: http://www.roberthalftechnology.com/External_Sites/downloads/RHT/rht-us/rht2006s_guide.pdf

I've seen a canidate rejected because they refused to name their expected salary.  For some reason, it ticked off the GM and he declined to continue with their interview process.

Honestly, how hard is this?  Negotiating a salary isn't about screwing a company for every last dime.  It's about agreeing upon a fair salary that accurately reflects your worth under the current market conditions.

When salary comes up, I try to indicate that I am flexible and it depends on the benefit package.  Seriously; if you work for an insurance company and start with 4 weeks of vacation a year, a 5% annual bonus into your 401(K), and 401(K) match, then you can probably afford to take a pay cut to get a net raise.

Sadly, and I really mean, this is sad, the HR person probably won't know, because the HR Dept is so specialized that the recruiter and the benefits person are two different people.

If you know the complete benefit package, know wbat you need to live on, and know what prices are competitive out there, you should be able to answer the question "How much do you want?"

Still, it's better to find out the best range.

When the company says "Well, we hire the best person, then asses the skill set to determine the range.  This job could be anything from Junior Programmer to Senior Programmer/Analyst, we hire based on talent and aren't afraid to mentor" - that is a very good sign.

Good enough that I've only heard it twice, but still, those companies got my attenion. :-)

"When salary comes up, I try to indicate that I am flexible and it depends on the benefit package.  Seriously; if you work for an insurance company and start with 4 weeks of vacation a year, a 5% annual bonus into your 401(K), and 401(K) match, then you can probably afford to take a pay cut to get a net raise."

Very valid.

The salary is only one part of the package and should be treated as such...  maybe they can be negotiable on "use it or lose it" benefits like annual compensation for conferences, education, etc.  Then the onus is up to you to actually do the things...