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The Joel on Software Discussion Group (CLOSED)

It's my new manager. We don't really mix. He doesn't treat me very well. He is not supportive. He openly gives me a hard time and seems to enjoy it. He didn't even bother giving me a review when it came due, just a rating. It was the lowest rating (a 3 for "competent") and the lowest raise increase (3.5%) that I've had since I've been there with the company (6 years). I have no idea why he feels so negatively toward me. I don't take it personally, it's him. Right after the re-org 6 months ago, 2 developers ("architects") that worked for him quit, and I heard it was because of him, that he never gave them good reviews, wouldn't promote them. (and they were quite talented from what I heard). I am almost to the point that I want to ask his manager (whom I get along with really well, and who almost hired me as a manager during the re-org), to put me on someone else's team. There are basically 3 development teams, I could go to one of the other two. The managers there are nice and normal. Should I stick it out? and hope that another re-org happens (I'd say there's a 50/50 chance of that happening, everybody's grumbling) Or should I ask to switch to another team and risk being viewed as a "problem-child"? Ironically, I'm really enjoying my work and getting lots of praise from the business unit on this project I'm on... but that doesn't seem to matter to my manager.

Stick it out.  The view you present of this manager is that he is a bad manager and if you go to his boss your basically telling him that one of his managers is incompentant which means he is incompentant for not firing the guy.  On the other hand, if your boss's boss knows the guy is jerk and waiting for the right time to can him and you stick it out in a professional way you'll win points with him.

What past sins are you paying for? If none, why would you stick it out for even one minute?

It has only been six months. If you like the work I'd say to stick it out for another six months. You never know what can happen. Maybe the guy will get canned and you will be sitting right where you need to be to step into the management position. If you change now you will probably be starting at the low end of the pecking order again. If things don't improve over the next six months, ask to switch, have it out with him, or change jobs.

I've always found it to be in one's best interest to be quite honest about how you feel towards someone...not rude mind you, but matter-of-fact.

I've told co-workers right to their face that I didn't like them or something they've done. When you do this, it creates a workplace "decompression" of sorts which then allows all parties involved to begin a dialogue. Instead of hiding feelings you lay it on the table for all to see....you would think this is counterintuitive but you'd be surprised how people respond when THEY feel that you are NOT hiding your thoughts and feelings towards them....it has a propensity to put people at ease...besides, people do have an uncanny ability to "know" who likes them, who doesn't, and those "hiding" thoughts from them in the workplace...

Using this approach, I remember one time I got into a direct verbal confrontation with my boss......who literally started to scream and freak out (it was a woman of course)...I took control of the situation ending the "chat" by saying, "Look, I'm here for one reason and one reason only....to help you make money for your business."

That seemed to have worked...I never had a problem again with the boss or the coworker both of whom I despised....

if everyone is grumbling, I would ask, are they grumbling to the right people?  Your manager's boss doesnt have ESP, and if everyone is afraid to speak up and say 'this guy is a jerk' then how will your manager's boss find out?
Keep in mind though, if I were your manager's boss, the first question I would ask is ' have you talked to him about it?'

First, talk to the manager.  In a non-confrontational manner tell him you believe he may have issues with your work and you would like to understand them. 

Often, when forced to explain (especially outside an evaluation) people are more forthcoming.  It could be as simple as he has higher expectations and you perform average (which appears to be what a "3" is).

If the discussion does seem to bring fruit, then ask him what two areas he feels you need to improve on.  Like a customer you cannot win an argument here, so just listen.  Then ask him what he thinks you do best.

This serves several purposes.  First, you limit the abstract and unhelpful - "I really think you could be a better developer."  Then, it makes him acknowledge you must be doing something well.  Finally, it makes him recognize you are trying to improve - even if you do not agree with him.

Some people are slave masters.  They exist to beat the slaves to produce more and even when you do it is just "competent" in those cases, you can only leave.  It will not get better.

Some people believe that being critical is part of the leadership position.  These people can be influenced, but developers rarely make them recognize it.  Once someone asks they may evaluate their behavior and change.  It does happen and they become better leaders (not managers) for it.

Which you have is impossible to say.

Everybody's grumbling because of the re-org and the new positions, not because of my manager, he's just a small cog in the wheel. And, I did talk frankly to my manager about a scenario about a month ago, when his actions rather ticked me off, and told him I'd rather tell him directly than someone else. Yes, that did seem to work then and he appreciated my openness, but a week later he was back to his old self. I don't think I'm ever going to win points with this guy, no matter how nice or how good of a job I do. I do like the idea of giving it a timeframe - six months, and then see. That makes sense.

MS Hack, I appreciate what you are saying. It's not a productivity issue, I'm very productive, I've got over 15 years experience, leading teams, design, architecture, certified in .NET. etc, always complete projects on time with very few bugs even with scope creep. If he would have met with my last manager before my review, he would have learned more about me. It's completely a personality thing. It's the same reason those other 2 developers quit - they were very good, and he gave them a hard time as well. This guy seems to like quiet, non-technical business analyst types. I'm very assertive, very technical, very results-oriented, very customer-service oriented. Other managers I've had have given me glowing reviews. So, thanks for what you're saying, but if I ask him, gee, what I'm I doing wrong? It's like saying to him, you're right for treating me like that, it must be me, not you. When he gives me a hard time, it has absolutely nothing with my work, he vents all his frustrations out on me. Also, he's not supportive, for example, on my project I needed 3 developers. He kept changing who he was going to provide,  provided some without .NET experience, gave me one but then put her on a different project without my knowing about it. Stuff like that.

SongSing,

Here's what I gathered from your posts:

1. You and your boss don't get along.
2. You've voiced your concerns. Nothing has changed.
3. Your boss is making your professional life difficult and hindering your work.
4. Your boss is not giving you the recognition or respect you deserve based off your past experience and proven results.

Why are you even considering sticking this out? You sound like a very accomplished developer and tech lead, and I wish I had a tech lead like you that had his head on straight.  Even if switching to a different team, or even go as far as quitting, will temporarily set you back a little bit, I think in the long run it will pay off.  Put your happiness first, because right now you sound frustrated and unhappy.

After six months you feel in your stomach what to do. Leave.

The longer you stay, the more of an impact this manager's reviews have on your work history.

Or, put another way, the longer you stay, the longer this mgr gets to build a "case against you".

If you can trust the mngr's boss, I'd talk to him. Baar in mind, this might be considered "jumping the chain of command" and be frowned upon.

I agree with Larry's summary. I think Bill's opinion is wrong, but because it was based on incorrect assumptions about your skill set.

I agree that with your experience and track record, you don't have to be submitting to bully bosses who are just going to abuse you no matter what you do. You should not have any problem at all finding a position with a pay raise elsewhere because your skill set is in hot demand now.

Get another position lined up. This should take less than a week for you. Then go to the boss's boss, say 'I love my work but I can't work efficiently with Joe's critical attitute, which is a personality issue. I'm willing to join another team if you would like me there, but if not I am going to have to consider all my options. And I'm going to need a 20% increase as well. Overall I've enjoyed the work here and most of the people. I hope to have a decision from you by the end of the week." If he does anything at all other than what you want, say "I've enjoyed working here. I've already got my desk cleaned out, so if you could have a check drawn up by the end of the day, that would be great."

My general principle in work is that I will put up with lots of crap from customers, but I won't put up with crap from management. Putting up with crap from management never gets you anything in return, but putting up with crap from customers sometimes brings in the paycheck.

Great point Art. I just realized: I've always done that as well.

Unfortunately, in any big organization, your boss IS your customer.

I define a customer as someone who trades thier money for your service/product/time.

It's funny how much better things work when you only deal with customers.  (That's *parttly* why healthcare is such a mess: no customers. No feedback loop. If I want to pay more for better service (convenient appt's, etc.) or less for poorer service, I'm out of luck.).

+1 with Art.  He's right my assumption was the OP wanted/needed to stay at the company.

Life is too short. If you're unhappy, do something about it.

Come on... he's not THAT unhappy. And he could be even unhappier if he "does something about it". He has to ask himself just how unhappy he really is. Could it be that you were treated like royalty before and are a little too acustomed to getting praise? You realize that you run the chance of ending up in an even worse situation if you try to make a change.

I'm not trying to tell you to be more conservative. I'm just saying that so far you haven't described anything that was so terrible that you absolutely had to leave. You say you like your job and I am assuming that you are not being physically or emotionally abused. So what if he doesn't praise you like your previous bosses or can be a little tough to deal with some times? Whaa, whaa, whaa...

As I said before, give it six more months to settle in and then decide.

"I am almost to the point that I want to ask his manager (whom I get along with really well, and who almost hired me as a manager during the re-org), to put me on someone else's team."

Have you thought about talking to the managers of the other teams you might be able to work with about all the interesting stuff they're doing and getting them to request that you work for them? That would get you out of the situation you're now in without anyone losing too much face, and makes you look talented and positive rather than a temperamental whinger.

I used to pussyfoot around managers.  I got tired of it.

Go back to your manager and let him know that he has reverted after promising to be more reasonable.  Be prepared to give him specific examples of his unacceptable behavior from this week, last week, the week before that, last month, and several months ago - show him a pattern.  If he doesn't improve immediately, then go to his boss and get him fired.

You don't have to work in a place where you are unhappy.  Your workplace has been a good place before, so it can be a good workplace again.