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Rational Rose anyone?

Hi!

Anyone have any experience with the Rational Rose line from IBM? I'm in my second year of software engineering and the topics we're covering aren't very challenging, or fun. I started browsing the IBM website and found this.

I'm installing the trial version to play around. What's the opinion out there about this product?

Thanks!
Guillaume Drolet-Paré Send private email
Tuesday, November 21, 2006
 
 
What are you really trying to do? :)
DEBEDb Send private email
Wednesday, November 22, 2006
 
 
I have used Rational Rose for design and like everything about it except its cost.  For a cheaper alternative, take a look at Enterprise Architect.
Jeremy Send private email
Wednesday, November 22, 2006
 
 
"I have used Rational Rose for design and like everything about it except its cost."

Amen.
A. Nonymous
Wednesday, November 22, 2006
 
 
I last used Rose back before IBM bought Rational.  I liked everything about it except its price and the bugs in it.  Back then, the people who I worked with joked that Rational could really knew how to design software but didn't know anything about writing it (plenty of Win32 exceptions).

It sounds like the pricing hasn't changed; I assume that IBM has tightened up on the development.


If you want to take a look at another expensive tool, try Borland's Together - http://www.borland.com/us/products/together/

I used Together before it was bought by Borland and it was the equal of Rose at that time.
RocketJeff Send private email
Wednesday, November 22, 2006
 
 
Every version of Rose I've used has been awful. Rational couldn't design a UI if they tried (and they obviously didn't).

It's extremely expensive too. I'd personally avoid it.
Anna-Jayne Metcalfe Send private email
Wednesday, November 22, 2006
 
 
The big problem I've had with Rational Rose in the past is that it's not very flexible.  It rigidly insists that certain UML features be use in certain ways, and is very difficult to 'customize' your useage.

Since UML has continued evolving from the start, that attribute is not very helpful.  Plus, a full license for Rational Rose is around $5,000 per seat, which I find daunting.  My first car didn't cost $5,000, nor did my first PC.

I find UMLStudio from www.pragsoft.com to be much more useful.  It's about $500 per seat ($125 per seat with the academic discount).  It's pretty flexible.  It can be used to implement any subset of UML (or the full thing, but NOBODY implements the full thing anymore).

It's best attribute is that it will generate code from the Class Diagram, or generate Class Diagrams from code -- C++, Ada, Java supported off the shelf.  What they call "true round-trip engineering".

Since the 'big three' of UML diagrams are the Class Diagram, Sequence Diagram, and Activity Diagram, and all three are well supported by UMLStudio, that's what I recommend.
AllanL5
Wednesday, November 22, 2006
 
 
UML Studio looks awsome! I'll give it a try in the next few days!

Thanks!
Guillaume Drolet-Paré Send private email
Wednesday, November 22, 2006
 
 
If CASE tools and UML are so important why does Rational produce crappy software? They ruined Purify and I have been told by more than one person that the older versions of Rational Rose really stunk (I don't know about the newer versions).

Just keep in mind that the important thing is the product. CASE tools and UML diagrams are a means to that end.
Andy Brice Send private email
Wednesday, November 22, 2006
 
 
I am quite pleased with the UML support in MS Visio 2003 Professional, because it actually has a model behind it.

On a bang for buck basis Enterprise Architect is pretty good (http://www.sparxsystems.com/)

Wednesday, November 22, 2006
 
 
> What they call "true round-trip engineering".

Can it (or, can any tool that you know of) do "true round-trip engineering" with arbitrary (non-engineered) C++ source code? Specifically:

1) Reverse engineer C++ -> model
2) Edit the model
3) Forward engineer -> only applies the relevent delta to the source code
4) Edit the source code
5) Reverse engineer -> only applies the relevent delta to the model

C++ source code can be messier than other languages, for example:

* Each class declared/defined in separate *.h and *.cpp files that are stored in different directories
* #ifdef and #define and #undef at arbitrary places, in the source code or in the project/make file
Christopher Wells Send private email
Wednesday, November 22, 2006
 
 
"Can it (or, can any tool that you know of) do "true round-trip engineering" with arbitrary (non-engineered) C++ source code?"

I'm looking for this one for more than ten years now ... :)
Even in the beginning, the task requires a full-fledged C++ parser. I'm not aware of any tool able to do this - not counting some compilers or the EDG frontend.
Micha Send private email
Wednesday, November 22, 2006
 
 
StarUML is open source and quite capable: www.staruml.com
moronica
Friday, November 24, 2006
 
 
A couple of years ago I-Logix (now Telelogic) were making some bold claims about the round-trip capabilities of their product Rhapsody. Never used it though, so can't comment on how good it is.
IanH. Send private email
Friday, November 24, 2006
 
 
That StarUML is amazing! Very simple and easy to use!

Thanks a lot for the recommendation!
Guillaume Drolet-Paré Send private email
Friday, November 24, 2006
 
 
StarUML looks great but it doesn't support Java 1.5.0. Pitty.
Dino Send private email
Friday, November 24, 2006
 
 
Rational Rose = Bloatware
Steve Prefontaine
Sunday, November 26, 2006
 
 
I am involved in a large state government project where the vendor is using the whole sweet of Rational/IBM products for development and deployment (WAS, Portal, MQ Workflow, WebSEAL, Cluster, everything and the IBM kitchen sink).  I have found the documentation produced by the Integrator to be lacking and difficult to follow.  I have been extremely disappointed in IBM's products since looking at using VisualAge for Java in 1998/99.  Although, I have to say they are the leaders in the Java community, without a doubt!

I have just started using StarUML on another small to midsized project that I am also on, and it is amazing.  I just applied it to yet another project using the Reverse Engineering for C# and it rocks (although why does it see properites as private?).  It has C++, Java, and C# support for Reverse Engineer, and Code Generation.

I just tried to use ArgoUML to help someone with some UML diagraming they were doing, and let me tell you--it was awful--bugs, lack of features.

StarUML is amazing for UML diagrams.
Eclipse for Java development
VS.NET for Microsoft Development  (even the free express version is awesome!)

Just my $.02...  the open source community is starting to really take over the SDLC product market.

Best to all!
Pete Gordon
Pete Gordon Send private email
Monday, November 27, 2006
 
 
I agree the Open Source tools are awesome, but developers on the Windows platform seem to be keep on IDEs and IDE integration of tools.

I downloaded StarUML and plan to use it a little to see what's up.  Form what I've seen so far, it's awesome.

I'm still trying to see the benefits of using it over tools distributed with Microsoft (Integrated Lifecycle Tools, Visio for EA) and Borland (Integrated Together Modeling) IDEs.

For Java there are many IDEs like NetBeans, Sun Java Studio, and JDeveloper with superb UML functionality and roundtripping/code generating capabilities.

- Nate.
Nate Send private email
Monday, November 27, 2006
 
 
Rose is old at this point.  IBM/Rationals new product is RSM (Rational Software Modeller).  It's based on the Eclipse platform, and they really fixed some of the usability problems from XDE.  Right now, the code round-tripping is Java only, but they say they'll have .NET (C#)support sometime early next year.  Pricing is still out of reach for most individuals (but there might be an .edu discount).  Good support for UML 2.0.  Make sure your machine has lots of RAM, too.
xampl
Tuesday, November 28, 2006
 
 

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