The Design of Software (CLOSED)

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I work for these guys..

I was hired about a year ago to design a way to run DHTML on the server for whatever reason, and I'm hoping I did a decent enough job of it.
Using it with a broadband connection, on my laptop with windows me and IE with filters, it's nice enough, but what is your general impression of it?
- It runs in firefox and opera as well, but not as smoothly.
http://www.naltabyte.se/main.asp

It's XML thru and thru, and can be ported to most any server platform with relative ease.
Also, it's not terribly straining on the server, it's just an illusion that it has to be..
It's doing the same things as other serverapps do, only looking different while doing it.
mikael bergkvist Send private email
Thursday, October 20, 2005
 
 
Impressive skills. But... why?
Thom Lawrence Send private email
Thursday, October 20, 2005
 
 
I spent 2 minutes on your site.  It took me over a minute to find the drop down menus on the top.  I have no clear idea what your product does.  (Though I did see a few buzzwords in light gray, close to unreadable font)  It could be super cool.  It could revolutionize the internet.

I'll never know though.
Michael Bevilacqua-Linn Send private email
Thursday, October 20, 2005
 
 
It allows serverside jscripting to manipulate the html elements on the same asp page as the just mentioned jscript, as easy as clientside dhtml, picking up clientside events to call functions on the server.
The serverapp can therefor mimic the behavior of most dhtml, while remaining browserneutral.
Apps can also be enclosed as small selfcontained xmlfiles fetched from anywhere on the web, even the local desktop, to be run on that server as fullblown serverapps 'on the fly'.

- Anyway, I passed on your concerns (which I wholeheartedly agree with) and *something* was done about it right away, but I dont know if it is looking any better..

Not my problem though.. :-)
mikael bergkvist Send private email
Thursday, October 20, 2005
 
 
I'm happy to know that my site will be secure from beligerant piscines if I use your tech. I understand these can be a problem in the pelagic waters around Sweden...

Oh wait, no its just the "About This.." box needs a horizontal scrollbar. Damn. :-)
Gadus morhua
Thursday, October 20, 2005
 
 
Thanks for the tip.
Added it.
mikael bergkvist Send private email
Thursday, October 20, 2005
 
 
"It allows serverside jscripting to manipulate the html elements on the same asp page as the just mentioned jscript, as easy as clientside dhtml, picking up clientside events to call functions on the server.
The serverapp can therefor mimic the behavior of most dhtml, while remaining browserneutral."

Doesn't ASP.Net provide the same functionality already?
Anon
Thursday, October 20, 2005
 
 
Wow re-reading my first comment it was a bit snippy!  Sorry, I was trying to catch a train.

Is that page a placeholder, or are you guys actually trying to sell something from it?  I'm no marketing expert but I'm pretty sure you won't sell much with that as a front page. 

The first sentence is "Xin require no plugins/scripts on the client."  First off, it should be "requires".  Second, why are you mentioning what it doesn't require before we even know what you're trying to sell?  There have been a ton of good marketing books posted in various places here.  I'd recomend finding a couple and passing them along to the fellows who made that site, ASAP!
Michael Bevilacqua-Linn Send private email
Thursday, October 20, 2005
 
 
"We need the personal contact"?  It makes you sound lonely.

I have to agree with what others have said; there's no clear indication on the page of just what this product is, why I would want one, and why it would be worth $180.

Also, it appears that whoever composed the text of the page isn't a native English speaker.  You should compose the text in your original language, then have a native English speaker who also knows your language do a translation or at least proofread yours.
Kyralessa Send private email
Thursday, October 20, 2005
 
 
Yeah... I still don't understand what it does or why I should buy it. It sure sounds like ASP.NET already does that.
Turtle Rustler
Thursday, October 20, 2005
 
 
I don't see the site because I block cookies,

if you want casual visitors (or paranoid ones) then you can't depend on cookies !
anon in iceland
Friday, October 21, 2005
 
 
text is way too small.

Never use grey on grey text!

why all scrunched up in the corner?

tell me why I need it in 10 words or less.
revert my buffer
Friday, October 21, 2005
 
 
Hi.
Asp.net already does some of it, but this is for plain old asp and not asp.net, and it supports servertags created using plain old jscript, and it's not bound to one specific serverplatform, there's a version for php on the way.
It's the raw simplicity of developing apps using simple scripting that is the pitch.
mikael bergkvist Send private email
Friday, October 21, 2005
 
 
With Xin it's very, very easy to create a serverapp.
I can't really explain how easy it is, because it will sound like a hype nomatter how I phrase it.
These apps are fetched and run by Xin's windowmanager, which is about as flexible as can be, for any type of pagelayout and witch can be styled using css.
So, the comparision with asp.net only applies on the actual coding of the apps, not the system of delivery to the browser.

The site is not really a pageholder, but it's not the real site either, it's a way for us to find out what's what, and your great responses has been very helpful.
We now know what we fail to convey and what we need to underscore.
The site will soon undergo changes to reflect what we have learned here.
- Thanks everyone.
mikael bergkvist Send private email
Friday, October 21, 2005
 
 
"I can't really explain how easy it is, because it will sound like a hype nomatter how I phrase it."

That's really the root of your problem.
comp.lang.c refugee
Friday, October 21, 2005
 
 
Man.. I still don't know what this thing does. :)

It was very slow and didn't work well in Opera when I tried it yesterday, though.
sloop
Friday, October 21, 2005
 
 
It's kind of annoyingly slow over my DSL line, especially the calculator. I think this would fare well for rich intranet applications over a LAN, though.

-=Aaron=-
-=Aaron=-
Sunday, October 23, 2005
 
 
FWIW, under firefox the two menu headings have no descenders - the g's and p's are in trouble.
RH
Sunday, October 23, 2005
 
 
Thanks.
mikael bergkvist Send private email
Sunday, October 23, 2005
 
 
What problem does this solve?
The Real API Send private email
Monday, October 24, 2005
 
 
In IE, open the RSS reader first and then open the paint application, the combo box from the RSS reader is on top of the paint application. Google for IFrame shims to see how to fix this in IE 5.5 and later.

Otherwise, I think those demos need a lot of polish before they will convince anyone to use the product.
Gerald Send private email
Monday, October 24, 2005
 
 
Thanks for the tip.
- What is the most important area of improvement in this case?
 Appearance or functionality?
mikael bergkvist Send private email
Monday, October 24, 2005
 
 
The questions that popped into my mind were:

1. "How is this better than Dojo, SmartClient, BackBase, and other buzzword-compliant JavaScript UI frameworks?"

2. "Will this really work out-of-the-box and save time, or would it just be easier to write the functionality I need from the scratch?"

3. "Won't managing those windows become a chore for the users?"

4. "Why does it flickr and flash so much?"
Aapo Laitinen Send private email
Monday, October 24, 2005
 
 
Good questions all of them.
Most have obvious answers (but not on the site :-() but the flashing is a bit of a bother, since it's because the webpage reloads every time it 'animates' the interface in respons to an event, like the dropping of a menu.
(The system is built to run even if the user doesn't support javascripting at all..)
Any ideas on how to 'kill' the flashing when reloading would be greatly apprichiated.
Currently I 'hide' it behind a transition, but that only works in IE5+, with those activated.

Also, I dont see the flashing myself either way, using a laptop with windows ME and broadband, but others do, while using better machines and connections than me, which is a bit mystifying to me.
mikael bergkvist Send private email
Monday, October 24, 2005
 
 
"Impressive skills. But... why?"

If I had done this using javascript, it would take me some considerable amount of time, and I would need to code a server backend in any case.
If I had done it in asp or php, the same thing, but the other way around.
In both cases, I'd have to deal with browser compatibility.
And it would be less than trivial to code it, as you point out.
Now, dead easy, crossbrowser, and I'm coding for only one side, the server, while chomping donoughts and watching OC.
It's also automatically taking care of relative paths, so I can open any app from anywhere and just run it.
The apps can be fetched either from anywhere on the web or from the hardrive, with a single click.
So, it's a lazy tool.
mikael bergkvist Send private email
Thursday, October 27, 2005
 
 
"What problem does this solve?"

I'll be happy to give you a free trial for you to create something interface-related, then you'll see for yourself.
You wont have to install anything, infact, you can run the app directly on our server as a private session.
- Just create the xml and go.
mikael bergkvist Send private email
Thursday, October 27, 2005
 
 
Hmmm, Mr potato head, but I can't turn the parts...

An RSS reader... using my networking or yours to get the RSS feed?

the problem I'm having with the simple apps you're demo'ing is that I don't know if the limitations are because of your sample or the server.

For instance, I can't resize the docking apps browser window so that it will resize the contained RSS reader, and the RSS reader doesn't fit - using the scroll bars cuases screen refresh issues.

On occasion it is also slow, just scrolling the apps list in the dock takes several seconds, and it's not moving in whole increments - hitting down button only showed half the calculator app icon.

I was thinking of suggesting people in my Organisation have a look at this as they are trying to push DHTML interfaces at the moment.

Tuesday, November 01, 2005
 
 
I'll fix the docking app.
- Thanks for the feedback.

The source for all the apps can be downloaded onsite, xin fetches the code and executes the apps as shown..
The apps can be fetched from anywhere, regardless of what directory or server, and supports relative paths to images, etc, included in those apps.
mikael bergkvist Send private email
Tuesday, November 01, 2005
 
 

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