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C# Asp.Net  - or -  Ruby on Rails

I am a development team leader for a large corp. Said
large corp is an all MS shop - VB6, VB.Net, C#,
SQL Server, VSS, IIS.

We are embarking on a large and complex web application.
Because of how the company is structured, I am allowed
some discretion in how I lead the team - with the
understanding that I may be taken out and shot for making
bad decisions. (For example, my team uses Subversion
instead of VSS.)

I have been considering going to Ruby on Rails instead of
C#-Asp.Net for this project.

I haven't written much Ruby code in the last year -
however, a couple of weeks ago I fired up xemacs and
and wrote some Ruby to process my Lotus Note mailbox.

I had forgotten how clean and elegant (fun?) it was. It
left me with the feeling that Asp.Net is more of an bane
than a boon...

I have differing levels of experience in LISP, Scheme, Ruby, Python, PERL, C#, C, C++, even Forth.

I have never been able to develop a warm-and-fuzzy
about DotNet. You know how it is when you have an
irrational dislike of something?

Like any other company, we want the impossible triangle:
Quality software, on time, under budget.

How insane am I?
black helicopters Send private email
Friday, May 06, 2005
 
 
You might be insane.

It's typically a good idea to minimize the number of variables that you've got to contend with in a new project.  It sounds good that you've got a little bit of experience with Ruby.  However, it could be too much of a risk for this particular project, especially if you've got to train other programmers on it.  There might also be a lot of initial code-churn if those guys aren't familiar with Smalltalk-like systems (and the various other nice properties that Ruby has).

How important is this project?  That's probably the determining factor here, as far as the question of your sanity goes.
Kalani Send private email
Friday, May 06, 2005
 
 
> However, it could be too much of a risk for this
> particular project,

However, I am having a hard time being convinced that
the risk is lessened with C#.

> especially if you've got to train
> other programmers on it.

Yes, I have yet to interview any prospective coders
with any exposure to Ruby. Even C# sharp skills are
scarce. OTOH, you can't throw a rock around our locale
without hitting a Java or RPG programmer.

>How important is this project?  That's probably the >determining factor here, as far as the question of your >sanity goes.

It is a key feature of a project that creates
multimillion dollar revenues. At a later date,
EDI financial transactions will also be added.

bh
black helicopters Send private email
Friday, May 06, 2005
 
 
Unless you have terrible programmers, go with the better language.
Brendon Send private email
Friday, May 06, 2005
 
 
Well of course there's not necessarily any reason to use C# or Ruby if your people are equally ignorant of both.

I think that the argument to "go with the better language" is potentially bogus.  The best language for your problem domain might not even exist -- and your best strategy might just be to create the language yourself.  I think that's a more common case than many people realize.

*However*, I don't think that means that you ought to go out and convert everybody to your favorite language.  Your job (I assume) is to get as much as possible out of your people.  To that end, you'd probably do better to figure out what sorts of environments they need and whether you can partition the work off.  Synthesize the parts at the highest level in whatever language is best suited for that job (if that's the job you'll be doing).

Having a homogenous programming language environment is less important, I think, than having the smallest and most expressive code possible for your problem.  This can often mean context-switches between programming environments.  Otherwise, consider (for example) programming your own DBMS and stored procedure system in C++ just because you're doing the front-end in C++.
Kalani Send private email
Friday, May 06, 2005
 
 
IMO, ASP.NET is more suitable for web applications with lots of predefined forms. If you want to concentrate less on forms, more on layout (or other dynamic features) or have to generate forms dynamically - ASP.NET makes things harder for you.

C# is a fine language. Unfortunately, most C/C++ programmers still program C/C++ in C#. If you try to move to Ruby, just make sure that your programmers can code in Ruby and not C++ in Ruby.

What I mean to say is that do not expect your C# programmers to explore and exploit the true potentials of Ruby. If they are unable to grasp the concepts of dynamic/duck typing, then they will continue writing unnecessary code checking for types, etc.

Lastly, about Ruby On Rails. I've been looking into Rails for some time as well. It's impressive. But it's so new that I'm also still not so sure whether to go for it or not. Since, originally Ruby On Rails had been positioned as a framework to build CRUD web applications, it's just engraved into my mind...
Pythonic Send private email
Friday, May 06, 2005
 
 
I mean no offence, but it sounds like your projects biggest problem is you.  How can you be the team lead and be light on the technology you’re using?  Regardless of the technology, the team leader must have more experience then having read “learn XYZ in 21 days” and having completed a prototype.

Structuring big projects to overcome the challenges of development and release management require a degree of experience and forethought.  Based on your post, it doesn't sound like you're there. 

Whatever your experience level, it’s important to realize that every technology has it problems, limitations, and strengths.  .NET requires a thorough understanding before you undertake a project of that size.  Perhaps it would be wise to bring in an expert just to help you get set up and going?
Ian Send private email
Friday, May 06, 2005
 
 
>I mean no offence, but it sounds like your projects
>biggest problem is you.  How can you be the team lead
>and be light on the technology you’re using?

That is a valid question. I also admit to suffering from
analysis paralysis more than once.

>Regardless of the technology, the team leader must have
>more experience then having read “learn XYZ in 21 days”
>and having completed a prototype.

Laundry list follows:

  16 years of C
  15 years of C++
  9 years of PERL
  8 years of LISP
  7 years of Scheme
  5 years of Ruby
  1 year of C#

Sprinkle Forth, Python, Pike, VB, SQL, and PHP throughout
that list. I have tried several times to like Java, but
have yet to succeed.

I was interviewing a candidate a couple of months ago
when I realized that I was writing assembler on the 6502
when he was still in diapers.
 
My concern is that ASP.Net smells funny (and looks fat)
in contrast to its advertised benefits. Complexity kills.

I suspect that with Ruby + XML + XSLT + CSS we could run
rings around ASP.Net - without rails.

bh
black helicopters Send private email
Friday, May 06, 2005
 
 
If nothing else, you could treat the rails app as the prototype you build to verify that your customers are specifying their desires accurately.  Whip something up while they're watching and ask if that's what they're thinking about.  If it's more complicated, implement it overnight and ask again.

There's tremendous value to getting there quickly.  Even if you re-implement the "prototype" in Asp.net after you lock down the functionality, you've still reduced a lot of the uncertainty around the scope of the project, no small accomplishment.
Art Send private email
Friday, May 06, 2005
 
 
"My concern is that ASP.Net smells funny (and looks fat)
in contrast to its advertised benefits. Complexity kills."

I love you, bh!

That's how I feel about using .Net for Desktop programs. I'm still not sure about ASP.Net for web app/services yet, but I'm using "spare" time to learn more about *nix/php/perl so I can have a better comparison at least (a new lifestyle at best).

Anyway, my advice is to look at your design and find the parts that you think might be challenging for you in either language. Prove them in either language (quickly), then find the parts that you're still fuzzy on and think through them. Then DECIDE already! :)
Wayne Send private email
Friday, May 06, 2005
 
 
Building a C# ASP.NET will just about never be as fast as PHP or mod_perl for a small shop. For a mid-size shop having larger code base, the .Net Framework that resulted from Microsoft paying attention to common patterns and programmer requests allows you to build some sensibility into an otherwise hard to manage project.

With Perl and PHP you kinda invent the framework as you go, maybe borrow some idea from the Nuke projects. This is not a bad thing, but it means more ramp-up time for new employees. If your chief architect leaves tomorrow you won't like long ramp up times.
Regular Send private email
Friday, May 06, 2005
 
 
As a stand disclaimer, I mean no offense but....

  16 years of C
  15 years of C++
  9 years of PERL
  8 years of LISP
  7 years of Scheme
  5 years of Ruby
  1 year of C#

How many times I have seen people discribing their skill set in "years" ??
And I have often seen people coming for interview, and claiming that they have 20 years of sw dev experience. But this means nothing if you are *not* improving! (I have one guy coming in and he has been maintaining a LDAP module for 15 years...)

16 years of C could just mean that you first came in touch with C 16 years ago (or it could mean that you are an wizard at C)

If you have solid experience with Ruby in the pass 5 years, I couldn't imagine that you are still having this doubt. (If you really have used LISP for 8 years, C# & ruby shouldn't be your choice either :-))

Anyways......
coderX
Saturday, May 07, 2005
 
 
Quoting OP:

"I am a development team leader for a large corp. Said
large corp is an all MS shop - VB6, VB.Net, C#,
SQL Server, VSS, IIS."

"It is a key feature of a project that creates
multimillion dollar revenues. At a later date,
EDI financial transactions will also be added."

I think you should go with ASP.NET if only because
the developers are familiar with Ms products. Also,
developing such an important application with an
immature framework is crazy.

Just 2 c of an undergrad CS student. :)
bluesky
Saturday, May 07, 2005
 
 
> 16 years of C could just mean that you first came in touch with C

Then I have 16 years experience with sex.
son of parnas
Saturday, May 07, 2005
 
 
If you are an all MS shop, then firstly people around you are going to be a lot more "comfortable" going the ASP.NET route - and that's important. A lot of the reasons projects fail are political not technical, so you might as well at least start off on the right foot there.

Also - if you're currently lots of MS servers, do you really want to start having to cater for dual platforms? *nix admin? That's a big step to take, and a big business risk to split your systems across disparate platforms, purely because of a "nicer" development framework.

I agree with you that Rails is fantastic, but I wouldn't say that it's always the right thing. Incidentally, there's also still legitimate questions remaining about the scalability of Rails at the very top end. For multi million pound EDI systems, I'm not sure I would be going that direction...
Andrew Cherry Send private email
Saturday, May 07, 2005
 
 
Personally I just have to wonder if you are thinking very much about your fellow devs. Would they be happy to find out that, though they have experience w/ MS stuff, you are going to force them to learn a language and some frameworks that they have no experience with, even though the language/apis they do know would work? Do you think they'll be motivated to do a good job? I'd think they'd just be motivated to get you fired/demoted b/c you're picking your "toy language" over what's practical/reasonable. Note that I say toy as in favorite, not "less capable."

Would you force them to wear fluffy shirts b/c you think they are comfortable even though everyone else prefers polos? I use this example mainly b/c it makes me think "But I don't wanna be a pirate!"

Seriously, as great as RoR may be, for an important system, it's probably not the right choice if you're the ONLY one of the developers that has experience with it. Sounds like you need to get over your fear of all things Microsoft. Until you do, I'm not sure you pass the smell test. No offense.
tim Send private email
Saturday, May 07, 2005
 
 
To be honest you sound like an ABM programmer dropped in way over his head. Instead of building on the expertise pool of your company, you want to ball and chain them to some all guru team they can probably never hire or maintain in the first place.

Look for another job. It will benefit both yourself and the company.
Just me (Sir to you) Send private email
Saturday, May 07, 2005
 
 
LOL.

It's great to see the point of view of everyone. It's always eye opening. The ASP.Net proposers have a valid point. But they aren't leaders either. They are followers. They follow the status quo. They buy when everyone is buying, and sell when everyone is selling. That way, they won't make it big, but they won't lose much, unless everybody gets screwed up, because people always do.

A less bitter approach is that to create a good architecture of a system, one needs lots of experience and confidence. By adopting pre-determined architectures, one concentrates on the solution, by dividing the problem in smaller problems already. Thinking inside the box of the problem is easier, but it doesn't save you from train wrecks -- where everyone in the train is at risk anyway, should someone decide the train needs to go faster... faster... much faster... (fire and motion).
Yeah
Saturday, May 07, 2005
 
 
If the project is large, there are other considerations that just saying "I love this language" or "I dislike how this 'feels'." You would really want to utilize the talent that exists in your company instead of trying to build a whole new team. We've all been there and burnt ourselves trying to build new skills in short times and trying to make them work miracles.

I've used Perl/Python before, I've used .NET as well. One of the advantages of using MS platforms is integration - the platform, the language, the database etc. are well knit so build/ramp-up time isn't high. One might argue the same for the other camp too - so it's more a matter of what you have in hand and how fast you can put it together with the people you have - time and budget are a big issue. You don't want to be researching/re-inventing wheels are you do the project.

As far as putting in a good architecture goes, I don't see why you can't do that with the .NET framework. It's one of those tough times where you have to think as a "project lead" and less as a geek. There are big/complex systems out there with .NET as the platform.

So the key questions you have to answer yourself is

-Time
-People skills that you have
-Available tools/resources to do what you want to do
-Do you have a resident guru in case you have difficulty in  architecture?
-How many disparate components (or languages/tools) are involved in building? the more they are, the harder it gets to run a big project in a company env. with different programmers.

Answer them impartially, without 'irrational' bias against a company or platform, and you probably will get to what you need to do!
v Send private email
Saturday, May 07, 2005
 
 
Whew! Too many post to try to address each one's concerns.

I see many people questioning my ability / leadership.

Well, let me tell you - yes I would make the team wear
fluffy shirts if that was a key to excellence. I don't
want to use Ruby because it's my pet language. If that
was the case we would do the project in Scheme and toss
around continuations all day. I have been eyeing Ruby
because I feel that it comes close to an ideal ratio of
complexity / elegance / usuability / power/

I am interested in excellence. If I have to beg for it,
buy it, browbeat team members, bribe teammembers, con
them, whatever it takes. Mercenary? Yes I am.

In pursuit of that, I feel that it is sometimes benefical
to step back and take a look at the things that we "just
know" are true. (Such as platform x and language z are
the obvious choices for disclipine w)

Sometimes we find what we "knew" to be true really is
true. Sometimes we find there is man behind the curtain.

Even after rethinking it, I am still convinced that
DotNet (C# in particular) is the best choice for desktop
application development for our corp.

For web development, I am still waiting to be convinced.

bh
black helicopters Send private email
Saturday, May 07, 2005
 
 
</Personal opinion alert>

Go with your gut feeling. If you don't have enthusiasm for a product, then everything you have to learn, and there will always be much, will be a chore, whereas if you have enthusiasm it will not be. Good leaders are enthusiastic about the project; if you are not, your team won't be either.

<Personal opinion alert/>

</Blatant sales pitch>

Before committing to Ruby-on-rails, take a look at Python with CherryPy. Major advantages (i) it's minimalist and powerful (ii) it should be possible to run it on Jython so as to give access to all your programmer's Java expertise (but don't quote me because I haven't tried).

<Blatant sales pitch/>
grasssnake
Saturday, May 07, 2005
 
 
I've had signifcant experience with both .NET and Ruby. 

There are sure a lot of posts that question both your leadership and ability.

The thing that makes me curious, why would you consider .NET is the best choice for your desktop application, but then use a different language for your web applications? 

I mean, my philoshopy has always been the right tool for the job.  If you have extended the .NET Framework yourself, or using some other custom framework like Mere Mortals, you probably have tons of code for Data Access, Business and Data Sets that could be reused between your desktop and web application? Why re-invent it all in another language?

That would be my question?  I must admit Ruby on Rails is really kewl looking, and i have never been afraid to grab a young technology by the horns and ride it, but the resources available, training, classes, developers for .NET seem to overwhelm what is available for Ruby, and if you get halfway through the project, you can probably easily bring in .NET experts and resources as opposed to resources with production level Ruby experience.
curiousEngineer Send private email
Saturday, May 07, 2005
 
 
Mr. Curious may have a point. This is a little graphic of mine about Ruby:
http://sinsalabintrix.blogspot.com/2005/05/ruby-techs.html
Yeah
Saturday, May 07, 2005
 
 
>The thing that makes me curious, why would you consider
>.NET is the best choice for your desktop application,
>but then use a different language for your web
>Applications?

Because my team doesn't do the majority of the desktop
applications.  :)

And, when it comes to windows GUIs, I am still not
comfortable with gtk, fltk, fx, et al. Like you say,
the right tool for the job.

We don't have so much an investment in .Net code as you
might think: We strive to make every application data
driven. Every thing from layout and names of columns to
fields on forms are received from a stored procedure in
SQL Server. Business logic changes are usually a breeze -
the DBAs make the required changed on the backend. We
only deploy new code to the desktop when we have to.

When it comes to the tiers of business logic, data,
and presentation - we try to restrict application
development for the desktop (and web) to presentation
as much as possible.

We *do* have a huge investment in business models, use
cases, and functional requirements.

> but the resources available, training, classes,
> developers for .NET seem to overwhelm what is
> available for Ruby,

Whenever I interview potential developers, I always
try to single out applicants that know how to write
code and understand object modeling. Yes, I would like
for them to have a knowlege of core technology (the CLR
in this case). But if they walk in and say "I'm a C#
developer" that is one strike against them already. I
don't want one-trick-ponies - I want software developers.
If they have experience in C# sharp and Java - but can't
start writing robust classes in Ruby or Python within
two weeks - then I have failed at selecting my team
members.

> and if you get halfway through the project, you can
> probably easily bring in .NET experts and resources

Will never happen at this corp. That is, either the team
will suceed or the team will fail - but there will be no
silver bullets or second guessing. This is both a blessing
and a curse.

I think I can feel the love already...  :)

bh
black helicopters Send private email
Saturday, May 07, 2005
 
 
As a sidenote to the above, I would *not* expect
devleopers to start writing robust classes in CLOS,
Eiffel, or even Smalltalk in two weeks as there are
other syntax issues involved.

CLOS is hands down my favorite object system but there
are people that just can't seem to get their head around
functional languages.

Buying them a copy of SICP for Christmas doesn't help...

bh
black helicopters Send private email
Saturday, May 07, 2005
 
 
Well why didn't you say your team doesn't have much of an investment in .Net. That kind of changes the whole picture. My interpretation was that your team was fairly well experienced in .Net and either vb.net or c#. Now, if they do have a fair amount of exp in .net languages/etc AND in building/planning complete solutions then I'd personally still go w/ .net.

I guess it all boils down to two things. 1. Which language would you feel more confident in your ability to plan/implement a complete, scalable (I assume you need this?) solution in? 2. Does your team trust you enough to try something completely new if you do choose Ruby? Also I guess, do you think they're capable of switching "paradigms" or whatever you want to call the mental context switch from a .net/more normal type programming style to ruby? I have never used ruby so I don't know how much of a switch it is. I'm assuming it's kind of like going from C/C++ to Scheme (aka, mental shift).

That's my $0.01
tim Send private email
Sunday, May 08, 2005
 
 
Nah, switching from C# to Ruby is more like switching from
C++ to C++ with managed memory, misc useful constructs,
and no fancy IDE (if you were a Visual C++ dev).

Obviously, the differences are greater than that. Both
Ruby and Python have attempted to include some LISPy
constructs in the language. However, I generally find
that I can translate C# classes to Ruby or Python
without muh sweat.

bh
black helicopters Send private email
Sunday, May 08, 2005
 
 
Well, that paints a much different picture, IMHO. Like I said, now it boils down to whether or not you think you can "sell" your team on the Ruby + the rest as something that is doable and worth their effort. Make sure you point out what you perceive the advantages to be (rapid developement I assume) and that you'll be there to help them get through any concerns they may have. Possibly having them read Paul Graham essays on how Lisp let them kick arse and let them know that Ruby is that "same type" of "great language" or however you want to phrase it.

When working on your sales presentation, make sure you do devote a fair amount of time to not just what the advantages are but also preliminary project planning. I'd be much more likely to switch if I had a list of advantages and a gameplan for our final product w/ clear goals/steps along the way, and a mini-whitepaper on "here's how it matches up to the .net way" point for point (# of points is up to you) that made me feel like you've done your background work here. Few thing's make a dev panic as much as "We're going to use X technology b/c it should be fine" w/o hearing "and here's the research/facts to back the "should" up."

Sorry if my ramblings aren't as concise as they could be.
tim Send private email
Sunday, May 08, 2005
 
 
Paragraph 1:
"I am a development team leader for a large corp. Said
large corp is an all MS shop - VB6, VB.Net, C#,
SQL Server, VSS, IIS."

As a lowly code monkey working in the trenches with multiple languages and platforms, I URGE you to check your pride and personal prejudices at the door before entering the role of team lead.

Please note that your first paragraph is the ONLY one of the entire post that addresses your organization, its culture, and its strengths. The rest of your post is merely about you and you alone: your personal tastes, your likes/dislikes, your irrational prejudices (by your own admission even), etc., etc...

There is no "I" in "Team Lead".

I can assure you that a few of the more senior MS developers will be able to give you the "warm-and-fuzzy" on C# and asp.net- the lack of which is most likely driven by YOUR lack of experience on the platform! Swallow your pride and get to learning :)
...But What Do I Know Send private email
Monday, May 09, 2005
 
 
Leave the project manager role and go back to programming - from your description you don't beyond in project management.

How about you find a new job as a developer of Ruby?

C# in and of itself is a good language - or are you just anti-microsoft?
NET
Monday, May 09, 2005
 
 
"If you want to concentrate less on forms, more on layout (or other dynamic features) or have to generate forms dynamically - ASP.NET makes things harder for you"

Perhaps you ought to peer under the hood a moment.  C# is an object oriented language. 

I build dynamic forms with controls that can output any html every day
NET
Monday, May 09, 2005
 
 
What if Microsoft adopted Ruby as one of the official dotnet languages? That would be awesome.
Ruby was the name of a language by Alan Kay it seems that was used to create one of the first versions of the VB language. Nothing like doing it again, with a new Ruby. :-)

The first VB version had something like 5 guys working on it. Anyone wonder how many guys contribute to one of the modern dynamic languages like Python, Perl or Ruby? Lots... And they have been doing so for more than a decade. All these languages are older than Java, it seems.

Anyone of the ASP.Net users knows what's the difference among Python, Perl and Ruby? :-)
Yeah
Monday, May 09, 2005
 
 
I would like to address a couple of replies:


"...But What Do I Know" writes:
>The rest of your post is merely about you and you alone:
>your personal tastes, your likes/dislikes, your irrational
>prejudices (by your own admission even), etc., etc...

That is correct. If *I* am going to be hanged over project
decisions, then it is very likely that *I* will make those
decisions.

I hire people to write code, I don't need another
achitect. I need people who can implement a design.

Think of it from the standpoint buildng a house. Not
every can be an architect - somebody (several somebodies)
have to do the foundation, frame it, roof it...

They can't follow their own free will - they have to
follow the blueprint.

> There is no "I" in "Team Lead".

There is also no "I" in "Boss". I should have noted
that in this corp Team Leaders are not senior developers
leading a small group of peacfuly co-existing devs.

We use the title "Team Leader" for managers, whether in
IT, accounting, what have you. I am actually the IT
Development Manager.


"NET" writes:
>Leave the project manager role and go back to programming
>- from your description you don't beyond in project
>management.

You sound very bitter about something. And, I like C#
just fine. I just don't believe in one-size-fits-all.

bh
black helicopters Send private email
Tuesday, May 10, 2005
 
 
"That is correct. If *I* am going to be hanged over project
decisions, then it is very likely that *I* will make those
decisions."

Keep in mind that you are not the only one to be hanged  upon failure. Your entire team will suffer. It is their reputations (and jobs!) on the line as well. It will be their late evenings, weekends, and early mornings learning not only syntax (which is easy enough) but developing to a new standard, which most likely departs significantly from the straight up MS stuff they have been doing.

It will be their personal time spent learning the best practices equivalents of things they already know and have been successfully practicing for years using MS tools. It will be their time spend finding the best reference materials, books, online resources. It will be their time fumbling around a new development environment, debugging without their favorite tools and learning new ones, etc.

To gloss over these details is plain cruel!

Sometimes I think tech managers just want to show everyone how smart they are instead of just going down the proven and successful road most ordinarily traveled by their organization and staff- you have yet to post any meaningful benefits to Ruby over .NET.

The Dude would not abide!
...But What Do I Know
Tuesday, May 10, 2005
 
 
On the years of experience bit:

It's possible to have 15 years of experience at something, but altogether to common to find someone who has 1 year of experience 15 times...
Anon
Tuesday, May 10, 2005
 
 
"I am having a hard time being convinced that
the risk is lessened with C#"

In a MS shop?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

oh bh - please explain!

Tuesday, May 10, 2005
 
 
> please explain!

Take devs that are most at home with Java or C++.

Throwing them into the middle of C#, Ruby, or
Python is a bit of a context switch. Adding a bunch
of arbitrary complexity (ASP.Net) to what really needs
to be nothing more than CRUD + presentation... why?

I would use PHP if I could ensure that the devs would
write readable code.

Sorry that I am not more clear. It feels like it has
already been a long week and it is only Tuesday.

bh
black helicopters
Tuesday, May 10, 2005
 
 
"I would use PHP if I could ensure that the devs would
write readable code."

Sigh ... so this was just a troll? Good one. You clearly had some people fooled.
Just me (Sir to you) Send private email
Wednesday, May 11, 2005
 
 
Oeps, sorry BH, misread that last sentence. I thought you were promoting PHP as readable.
Just me (Sir to you) Send private email
Wednesday, May 11, 2005
 
 
btw. Which part of ASP.Net do you find "arbitrarily complex"? Personaly I find the more trickier parts of code access security can become borderline nightmarish, but only in complex scenarios.
Just me (Sir to you) Send private email
Wednesday, May 11, 2005
 
 
How exactly is Java to C# a big switch? Just wondering.
tim Send private email
Wednesday, May 11, 2005
 
 
> How exactly is Java to C# a big switch? Just wondering.

It's a big change if you consider the framework (foundation classes) differences. Overall you should be able to apply the same design patterns, except where the differences are big enough due to the decisions made by the framework designers.
Li-fan Send private email
Tuesday, May 17, 2005
 
 
Check into htmldb.
Scot Send private email
Friday, May 27, 2005
 
 

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