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Andy Brice
Successful Software

Doug Nebeker ("Doug")

Jonathan Matthews
Creator of DeepTrawl, CloudTrawl, and LeapDoc

Nicholas Hebb
BreezeTree Software

Bob Walsh
host, Startup Success Podcast author of The Web Startup Success Guide and Micro-ISV: From Vision To Reality

Patrick McKenzie
Bingo Card Creator

Full web-base startup model


I don't know if someone here  had discuss this idea before, but i will like
to share it because i believe that the feedback is the way to build good ideas.

I am a man near to 30 yo with more than 10 developing for big companies, top corporations,
tired of corporative models and corporative stupid rules, i spend the last three years
developing my own solution and now i feel is moment to start own way and stablish own
 business, most of the people here i think was or are at this point, it's ok.

But i don't want to start a traditional software company with programmers sitting in a desk
and spend all my day supervising this people and travel every day to the job, i don't want to be a slave of my business as most of the enterpreneurs i know, this is the
kind of shit because i am leaving, i don't want to live to work, not anymore
i need to do my work and have all the rest of time to live and enjoy my family, that's i want, so...

I want to start my company in a different way with all the people working from house, a full web-based
company, but it needs different way of work to solve the normal issues about HR that traditionals companies
do, like sales, purchase, marketing, legal, salaries, etc, to do this i have some ideas:

One: No more time for money, this way for me is totally obsolete, most of the people spend 8 or more hours
working in office, i think half of that time is going to bathroom and taking coffee, and taking with fellows.
for me the new model company is not working per hour, is working to fill objetives and complete deadlines.

Two: No more end month payment or two weeks payment, a new model company as i want to start pay weekly, it to reduce
the idea of the people that they will not get payed because the company doesn't exist because is in internet.

Three: Develop all the company process and services adjusted to this new model, all the departments must exist and new
departments must be created according with the company will continue grow.

Four: Make this model scalable, so the company can grow, like have many customers in many countries, different teams in different countries but all web-based.
Javier Portilla "Javo" Send private email
Tuesday, November 11, 2014
> for me the new model company is not working per hour, is
> working to fill objetives and complete deadlines

This is tricky.  It's the same problem all contractors or service providers face: what if the objectives are too big or deadlines too tight?  Even if everyone makes an honest and best attempt at an estimate, you never know how hard something is until you're done.

So you've got to figure out a way that employees feel like employees and not just contractors.  If they are contractors, they don't care if your company does well.  And they are like you -- they don't want to live to work.  They want little work and much time with family.  Everyone does...

But if you want to move forward anyway, look at Basecamp (37signals).  That company seems to be executing well with most of the programmers working remotely.  Maybe the employees have part ownership or profit sharing to help motivate them to work hard...?
Doug Send private email
Tuesday, November 11, 2014
Hi Doug,

Yes, you are right, that's a problem, but i think weekly payment fill more with remote work, it must be tested, in my country payment is each two weeks.

I don't want to start a contractor or freelance company, i want traditional model web-based, so the people will have a salarie, healthcare, social security, and all like a traditional office software company but the benefits i will offer to my people will be more because no money needed to pay office rent, or electricity, or computers, the idea is increase benefits to people working for me reducing cost in infraestructure and focus on what really matters, the people and what are producing.

I check the 37signals website, they  are now basecamp, 43 people remote, very nice, that's the idea, the only thing i disagree is: "We want to maintain the kind of company where everyone knows everyone's name.", the things have to grow, to increase the oportunities of do better things, more people, more money, more big projects, it's my personal opinion, i like it.

So is possible and there is an example (37signals), i am investigating the legal part, if there are legal problems working on that way, and also family issue, as i read in previous post sometimes family think you are not woking because are not going to office.
Javier Portilla "Javo" Send private email
Wednesday, November 12, 2014
I think the idea of paying for work rather than time sounds great, in theory, but in practice, you will have all kinds of cultural and practical barriers. 

The obvious one is that nobody is going to be interested in taking any initiative to do anything beyond the minimum, exact letter of the task they were paid to do. Helping out a co-worker with a problem? I'm literally not getting paid to do that, so, go find someone who is.

I think it would end up more like a system of continually employing and paying very specifically targeted contractors, than having people working for you to build your company.

Also, good people will work hard regardless. And people will spend a certain amount of time chatting about last night's episode of Storage Wars, and you will be paying for that one way or another.

The idea of paying people weekly because they might be worried you are not a real company sounds completely retarded.
GregT Send private email
Wednesday, November 12, 2014
i propose the weekly because it happened to me before, 8 years ago i worked remote for a Spanish Startup, it was the best job i had in my life, i worked from home in shifts from 9 am to 4 pm, they had office but i just went there to meetings, the work was exciting and the projects very nice, the problem was: i was near to get married and with a lot of pressure about money, they had the montly payment system, so after two months, i had to left to a big company because i need the stable payment to pay all the weeding expenses and the Spanish startup wasn't paying as fast as i need, also family pressure.

If i get money sinc the first week, maybe happened different, but it's just a propose.

About pay per work not time, i have an idea, for example if i pay a jr programmer salary  $2000, that's $500 per week,

This is the base payment, after i define task completion incentives and a fixed milestone:

- Milestone: End of FrontEnd App - 4 weeks - deadline  xx-xx-xxxx
      Mockup                                                      $ 150  xx-xx-xxxx
      UML                                                            $ 100
      Design - Is for Designer                        $ 50
      Implementation                                      $ 150

So i fix the salary acording with quality and production of the people if the task are completed before deadline, if the task is complete in the current week the worker recieve the money in the current week.

Similar process is used with the sales people, the comission percent most of traditional companies have.
Javier Portilla "Javo" Send private email
Wednesday, November 12, 2014
Hola Javier,

There are many kinds of web-based businesses. It can be big and have a lot of employees, something in the middle (maybe like Basecamp), and no employees at all.

One of the advantages of today's world is that you can create a business without all the traditional concepts behind it: employees, payroll, HR department, etc.

If I were you, I would hire freelancers to create your product (once you really know you're filling a need people will pay for) and then just do marketing and sales, and see if you're able to make enough money for yourself.

Since you are a developer, you would be able to make any required update once you have the main features in place.

I recommend "Start Small Stay Small" from Rob Walling for more "micropreneur" lessons:

Sandy Wilkins Send private email
Thursday, November 13, 2014
I really respect what you're trying to do with the pay-for-work idea but I think it will be really tough to create a good environment where there is no incentive to do anything beyond the letter of the exact assignment that you pay for.

You might get some code out the door but I think it will be hard to create a wholesome environment where people really want to work together to help build your company.

You can't really compare to commission sales, because there, for the most part, there is no definition of 'quality' or concept of 'doing things right'. You either close the sale or you don't. (I'm assuming you're not going to hire people that kidnap people's pets in order to close a sale.) Programming is never going to be nearly so clear-cut and there are way too many ways to take shortcuts.

On the other hand, all systems suck in different ways, paying people like me that surf JOS when they should be working is a definite downside as well ;) But at least I am equally willing to help out my coworker when they run into trouble.

But good luck with it, sincerely. Just out of curiosity, may I ask, what  country you are in? I have heard Chile has a Silicon Valley-like (I mean this in a good way) startup/IT culture.
GregT Send private email
Thursday, November 13, 2014
Hola Sandy,

Como estas?

I am actually reading  The Lean Startup of Erich Ries, i will buy this book also, it looks very interesting and have the topics wich i am interested.

I am insterested in create a Startup, recruit small team as base and grow using a web-based platform to manage all the company issues, in company issues, providers and clients, all the HR stuff.

I will like long relationship with the developers not freelancers, i want to be employer not contractor.

Thank for the link.

Hi GregT,

I am living in Escondido, CA, US, but i am from Venezuela, my startup is to latin america, Venezuela, Colombia, Panama and Ecuador.

Chile has a program to startups, is called Start-Up chile, http://www.startupchile.org/ they give you 40000 thousands dollars as first investment if you move your company to chile.

Also a lot of governement support to the Startup and a lot of seed capital there.
Javier Portilla "Javo" Send private email
Friday, November 14, 2014
If you want more time for your family and personal life, Do not start a business!

In my experience, and I am sure
the others here who have started
a business will agree.  You might
make a lot more money on your
own or the same or you may lose money, but
you will not get more excess free time
in any case
C. Stark Send private email
Tuesday, November 18, 2014
You mentioned "I don't want to be a slave"

You will be more of a slave to your own
business no matter what way you do it.
of this I am certain.
C. Stark Send private email
Tuesday, November 18, 2014

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