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Andy Brice
Successful Software

Doug Nebeker ("Doug")

Jonathan Matthews
Creator of DeepTrawl, CloudTrawl, and LeapDoc

Nicholas Hebb
BreezeTree Software

Bob Walsh
host, Startup Success Podcast author of The Web Startup Success Guide and Micro-ISV: From Vision To Reality

Patrick McKenzie
Bingo Card Creator

Changes to VAT rules on 01-Jan-2015

If you are selling digital products to consumers in Europe you should read this:

http://rachelandrew.co.uk/archives/2014/10/13/the-horrible-implications-of-the-eu-vat-place-of-supply-change/

Hopefully between us we can sort out the various nasty implications.

You can also upvote the post on HN:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8447947
Andy Brice Send private email
Monday, October 13, 2014
 
 
Typical of the EU, dreaming up more and more ludicrously complicated rules. Starting to think that UKIP are right and we should just abandon the EU altogether. Getting harder and harder to justify our membership costs (money and hassle), compared to the meagre "benefits".
Scorpio Send private email
Monday, October 13, 2014
 
 
I saw this in the recent HMRC VAT notes. Keeping track of the customer's country and VAT number is going to be a real pain for electronic downloads.
Anthony Williams Send private email
Monday, October 13, 2014
 
 
I would assume that if you are using a payment processor ( Avangate for example ) then they will need to carry out most of the work and we would only need to worry about the single monthly transaction with them.
TomTomAgain Send private email
Monday, October 13, 2014
 
 
We sell software that is downloaded over the Internet, but it's installed at the customer's premises and doesn't use the Internet for any part of it's operation.

I'm hoping this isn't classed as a 'digital service' as we are not VAT registered and I'd like to keep it that way! The changes we'd have to make to comply with this are going to be a nightmare.

The example of 'anti-virus' software on the UK .gov site gives me hope. But then I saw one of the EU annex documents which says something along the lines of 'all software and updates'.

The UK VAT helpline is useless. You get an annoying voice menu where nothing works, then you get a message saying they are busy and it disconnects you.

Can anyone offer any advice here?
Cocowalla Send private email
Wednesday, October 15, 2014
 
 
Finally got through to someone on the VAT helpline. He said that the new rules will only affect businesses that sell B2C. As we are B2B only, we will not be affected.
Cocowalla Send private email
Wednesday, October 15, 2014
 
 
There is a document online which explains, but I don't have the link to hand.

As I understand it, if there is no 1:1 human service (e.g. consulting or training) involved in the sale, it counts as digital goods. Not sure what happens if you also ship them a CD.

>As we are B2B only, we will not be affected.

How are you going to stop consumers buying your software?
Andy Brice Send private email
Thursday, October 16, 2014
 
 
@Andy Brice

> How are you going to stop consumers buying your software?

The nature of our software sort of does that for us :)

In 10+ years of trading I could count on one hand how often consumers have even asked about buying our software. In all cases we've advised them our software is too 'heavy' for their needs and pointed them towards open source alternatives.
Cocowalla Send private email
Thursday, October 16, 2014
 
 
Couldn't you get "smart" and claim that you're selling licenses and not software? The license is not a digital product - it is just the right/permission to use a software that is freely downloadable for longer than 30 days.

Or something like this ...
Jeremy Morassi Send private email
Thursday, October 16, 2014
 
 
And have the government make you a test case?
Andy Brice Send private email
Friday, October 17, 2014
 
 
This is terrible. But I think payment processors already cover this currently. I'll just have to dump my PayPal registration option and only keep FastSpring. They already collect and pay vat after my EU sales. (even though I'm below the VAT registration limit in my country)
Zka Send private email
Saturday, October 18, 2014
 
 

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