* The Business of Software

A former community discussing the business of software, from the smallest shareware operation to Microsoft. A part of Joel on Software.

We're closed, folks!

Links:

» Business of Software FAQ
» The Business of Software Conference (held every fall, usually in Boston)
» Forum guidelines (Please read before posting!)

Moderators:

Andy Brice
Successful Software

Doug Nebeker ("Doug")

Jonathan Matthews
Creator of DeepTrawl, CloudTrawl, and LeapDoc

Nicholas Hebb
BreezeTree Software

Bob Walsh
host, Startup Success Podcast author of The Web Startup Success Guide and Micro-ISV: From Vision To Reality

Patrick McKenzie
Bingo Card Creator

Maybe I'm just not cut out for this.....

Sorry, I would rather remain anon for this. If you must delete it, be my guest.  This post may be TLDR, but in the end I want to know if I should bother trying to start my own software company.

I'm a software developer but I feel like my career is winding down.  I have degrees in EE/CS(but old and worthless) I've been doing it for a long time - probably over 20 years (worked in software training for a few years). I'm 41, got my first computer at 12, wrote some Basic programs then, and got hooked.

I am currently working as a contractor doing pretty complex c#/C++ vs2013 ecosystem work and LinuxVM w/Java(eclipse)/ ruby (for scripting) for a princely sum of 31 bucks an hour  - in  a fortune 50 company too, in a medium sized east coast MSA.

I was making smalltalk with the lady who cleans and also manages the cleaning staff, she told me she gets $17. I felt terrible, I don't make that much more. She is 27 with a GED.  She always bothers me with Java questions because she dabbles in android apps. She wrote an app to so her staff can report their hours(more to help her, not for her job). She does have 3 decent apps in the android app store, and is working on one for Microsoft phone. I also went out with her a few times, but I felt more like a software trainer than a date.

I guess I do pretty good work. The place isn't horrible but full of the typical gripes of users who don't know what they want and miles of legacy code which is difficult to integrate.

 The contracting company won't even give me a cost of living increase, and I'm under the hours to get benefits. I was under the impression that corporate contracting paid well. I took this job because I was self employed prior and wasn't having much luck finding something good, and of course back then the job market was dog doo.

I look at Glassdoor and see companies (I'm on the east coast) paying well over 6 figures, but on the other side of the fence companies (even very large household names) are looking to pay the least (and REALLY DEMAND A LOT).  We have programmers in India making peanuts(doubt if they are over 5K year), and people like me(I'm not the only "well paid" contractor).

 Sometimes to meet deadlines I will work off the clock, I'm not saying anything though because I worry I will lose this job. People are very impressed with my work and I come up with clever solutions. I asked about full time and got a ton of runaround, I detected an overtone that I may be too expensive. Now that they see I'm content with this pay for almost  3 years (and give nearly the productivity of a full timer) they have no incentive to change anything. They also know I'm single and all the guys there have family and kids, so they figure I need less.

I tried applying to other companies with very little success. I mentioned this salary to some places and they judged me on the spot. The work is in a niche and hard core algorithms(to the point sometimes  of converted to C++ scientific software that ran on 1950s computers in Fortran) that many recruiters don't understand and it don't have buzzwords like NoSQL/SQL, web, and asp.net MVC (stuff I could probably pick up in two weeks).  I do know SQL(worked with it for 5 years, but over 10 years ago) but that is worthless now if it isn't recent experience.  I have PHP/MySql/JS/MongoDB experience from independent work but no real product to show off(I can send code snippets). One offer I got .. I sh$# you not .. was for $21hr, 40/hrwk doing basic .net/db work. It was not a mom and pop place either, a medium sized private company.

I am contractually (had to sign this in person) not allowed to write or reveal the big corporation I work for (only the body shop), and the name of the place makes working for yourself more impressive. Think "FY Tech Resources" with a 3 page website that my boss said the owners daughter designed as an 8th grad project.  The company is owned by the wife or cousin of some bigwig in the company and they use it for payrolling.  If I (as HR) looked at a resume with the last two companies I have (XYZ and self employed) I would probably throw it in the trash. If I leave off self employed there is a 3 yr gap.

I think the competition in software is extremely competitive for a good job. I see even our positions get flooded with tons of resumes, and employers have the pick of the litter. And if they can't find someone to meet their crazy requirements of 12.3 years of .net 3.0 experience, there is always India. Sometimes these jobs are advertised INTENTIONALLY to get someone from India. I heard it from a top gun in HR.  Sure, if they find the 1 in a million that has all those skills, great, we will seriously consider them. If not (yah, the same chance of me becoming the CTO) we unfortunately have to "settle" for  overseas resources (not only H1b, but there are lots of cheap contracting and outsourcing options). 

I was out of work for a few years and tried to launch a few products but honestly I don't have the drive/attention span/secret sauce/whatever to truly do independent work and be a "Jack Dorsey/Joel  S" type. If I could do that I wouldn't need an employer, right? I didn't make much money. Obviously this isn't for everyone.  I know making anything in the appstore is a losing battle, especially entering at this point. The cleaning lady I mentioned about above said she wants to do something together and could be my "manager." At this point I may bite. She thinks the android appstore is an untapped goldmine because she made a few hundred bucks.  I do some open GL work for my job and she said lets collaborate on some games. I don't agree, how many jumpman games are there? I think its pretty saturated now with lotteryeske odds of getting any return on your efforts. She keeps bothering me about snapchat all the time. I told her we don't have Stanford degrees and connections...you sort recyclables and I sort pointers. 

 I do embarrassingly admit bouncing a few design decisions for my app of her. I work on something(one part of my job) that none of my co-workers deal with and no one else could help. I don't want to wait 2 days for the Indian team to respond.She always jokes with me that her first language was Java and mine was Basic and that is why I'm in trouble. 


I also know that as you get older in this field you become less and less valuable. Even my company offered early retirement to some older SW engineers. They hire guys out of college or maybe 27 is the max. I notice guys my age are senior management. I think I got hired because they thought I was somewhat younger.

So, at this point, I am thinking that I should just get out of this field and look into something else, even if it pays less. I'm thinking maybe sales or something. With my past experience as described, I don't think I even have a running chance of being considered for a decent job.

Finally I'm wondering if I should take another risk, either by myself or with Janet the cleaning lady, and try to start some ISV or whatever.
donewithsoftware Send private email
Thursday, November 28, 2013
 
 
A quickie drive-by reply - I spent around 10 years hopping from one cleaning manager job to another;

1. cleaning supervisor at small supermarket, 5 staff
2. Cleaning manager at larger supermarket, 17 staff
3. Cleaning Manager at big supermarket, 26 staff
4. Area manager for cleaning and facilities company, 300 staff, company van
5. District Manager, over 500 staff, company Ford Focus
6. Regional Manager, over 6000 staff, my own secretary and a very nice office, my choice of car.

Once a year, with a year's experience at the previous level, I changed jobs, aiming at the next level up :o)

It's a tough career, with shit hours and you're dealing with people like you, looking down on you as "the cleaner"... (I then took my managerial experience - and experience at dealing with a wide range of people - and moved into sales)

So, not only is this woman a successful manager, she's also a coder like you, and already has 3 products out there?

To be blunt, you could learn a lot from her.




AC
Reluctantlyregistered Send private email
Friday, November 29, 2013
 
 
>I mentioned this salary to some places and they judged me on the spot.

So don't tell them your current salary.

If you want a better job, you need to go out and hussle. Polish up some new skills in your spare time. Approach local companies direct, not through blood-sucking know-nothing recruitment agents.

>I'm thinking maybe sales or something.

On the basis of your post, I don't think you would last 5 minutes in a sales position. I don't mean that to be rude, I just don't think you have the attitude and thick skin that sales people require.
Andy Brice Send private email
Friday, November 29, 2013
 
 
I'd pick an open source project that needs all the skills you need to further your career and start working on it. You can learn some new stuff and put it on your resume. Get some real proof. Work on an active project so you can load it up and point out the clever stuff you added in an interview.

I don't know the full details about the potential job / partnership offer with your colleague but I'd be very wary. Trying to create a company that supports two people from any app store is a risky proposition even with some pre-existing traction. Maybe use it as above to get some new experience on the side?

I don't know where you're located. If it's in the USA it sounds like you need to move. With some re-polished skills it seems the job market in SV or even NY and other places is pretty buzzing. It's not like you'd have to fully commit to moving before getting a good job.

If instead you're somewhere like the UK the same think applies. It sucks  but you'd need to move to the SE and deal with our expensive rents. There are a lot of opportunities here.

I recently went through the hiring experience here. We passed on a lot of candidates not because they didn't have the right software skills (a lot did, and good coders can pick up new things fast), but because we were looking for someone passionate about what they did. The kind of person who started a new project just to learn jQuery/gwt/NoSql/whatever. When we finally saw these things in a CV I didn't really care how the person came by them, just that they were excited to learn things they didn't know.

That may be a minority experience, I don't now if you'd find that at a bank or some massive consulting house. But hopefully you'd find that attitude in smaller isvs (the kind of places that treat people well).
Jonathan Matthews Send private email
Friday, November 29, 2013
 
 
"I was making small talk with the lady who cleans and also manages the cleaning staff, she told me she gets $17. I felt terrible, I don't make that much more."

You should try and decouple your feelings of self worth from how much money you earn. Earnings are based on many things that are  out of your control so letting them affect your self esteem isn't healthy.

I'm not saying you shouldn't try and improve your situation, just that taking a more stoical approach will improve your state of mind and make it easier to make the right decisions.
Ducknald Don Send private email
Friday, November 29, 2013
 
 
"I am currently working as a contractor doing pretty complex c#/C++ vs2013 ecosystem work and LinuxVM w/Java(eclipse)/ ruby (for scripting) for a princely sum of 31 bucks an hour  - in  a fortune 50 company too, in a medium sized east coast MSA."

Sorry, but all I see is "blah blah blah".  As a customer, I don't care about all that.  Just make an app that I want, and I'll buy it from you.

You seem too hung up on your qualifications.  Just make what the customer wants, and stop thinking so hard.  Worked for me in the past, to the point my software got cracked.
PSB136 Send private email
Friday, November 29, 2013
 
 
Thanks for all the responses.
I am US based on the east coast, maybe 150 miles from NYC.  Seems I am being underpaid, there are decent salaries even here on Glassdoor. Good jobs are just harder to get.
My issue is this - if I send my resume in, I have crap experience for the past 6 years.

XYZ company(can't use the contracting employer) 3 yrs
skill blah blah

Self-Employed 3 yrs
skill blah blah

I sent out 100 resumes and never heard back anything. Many have been sent to NYC companies.

The responses come from bottom feeding Indian recruiters who were wasting my time. One Indian asked if I want to take a position in NYC for $50K/yr, and the requirements were far from entry level. I hung up. I would probably have to find roommates there with that pay. I would be working for him, and he would be probably taking half. Another was from a NYC startup that wanted to pay me $40/hr to start remotely and commute in once a week(about 3 hrs, all paid).  Of course they are going to be the next Facebook, and you get options for every hour you work.

So, you really think an open source project is going to make me attractive to employers?

Again, I tried going off on my own and did not do well. I learned everything about SEO, backlinks, etc and created some product and realized how scammy that niche is. Then I created some affiliate shopping comparison site that got delisted because competition bought me bad backlinks. It wasn't doing that great anyway.

Finally I was working on Odesk and Fiverr for peanuts competing with people in Bangalore and Chennai. I was probably averaging $12/hr.

The only thing I found valuable was a contact I made on Odesk, he was looking for an Iphone app. I'm not an Iphone dev, but somehow we made contact.

He claims he makes thousands in apps and is a terrible programmer. He HIRES people from the above sites and puts out the app. I contacted him and he said my mistake is trying to write the apps. He told me for a few hundred you could have an app that brings in revenue for years. He says if you are going to ponder callbacks in Objective C all day it is going to distract you from marketing the app properly.   

He claims he made millions from an app that allows you to watch TV on your PC years ago, now he is into smartphone apps. Of course he is selling a product as well(how to run a business like that, but he honestly said if you can use Odesk you are 90% there and don't really need his course), but it seems you still need the right app to compete in something the size of the Atlantic ocean.
donewithsoftware Send private email
Friday, November 29, 2013
 
 
> Another was from a NYC startup that wanted to pay me $40/hr to start remotely and commute in once a week(about 3 hrs, all paid).

So, that's a pay rise and the travel is paid. If you're thinking about quitting the industry anyway why wouldn't you do that? Sure it's a risk but then so is quitting development.
Jonathan Matthews Send private email
Friday, November 29, 2013
 
 
Ducknald Don wrote:

>> "I was making small talk with the lady who cleans and
>> also manages the cleaning staff, she told me she gets
>> $17. I felt terrible, I don't make that much more."

> You should try and decouple your feelings of self worth
> from how much money you earn. Earnings are based on
> many things that are  out of your control so letting them
> affect your self esteem isn't healthy.

I'm not sure I would interpret the OP's statement as saying that it affected his feelings of self worth.  Sometimes you just feel bad because something in your life is amiss.  It's not about you, it's about your circumstances.  And I think he had a good reason to feel terrible (*or at least "not so good") about this disparity.  It may impel him to take actions to change it for the better, and I hope that's what occurs.

(*Psychotherapist Albert Ellis of Rational Emotive Therapy fame would've advised the OP not to use the word "terrible" but something not so catastrophic, like, "inconvenient", or "not what I wish".  Catastrophizing only makes things worse, according to Ellis)
Racky Send private email
Friday, November 29, 2013
 
 
When you were self employed, did your company have a name?  Just put that on the resume, and list the things you accomplished while working for that company.  I don't think anyone needs to know you happened to own the company.

And if it didn't have a name, perhaps you could give it a name now.  That seems a bit dishonest to me, but, you're preventing them from making a judgment mistake.  I've worked for a number of startups (I was not the owner) that no longer exist -- you're in the same boat.
Doug Send private email
Friday, November 29, 2013
 
 
OP: "I sent out 100 resumes and never heard back anything. Many have been sent to NYC companies."

Maybe that's the issue? Why are you *sending* out resumes? Is there not a site in the US where you can post your resume for all to see?

There are sites in the UK that most recruiters regularly visit and, if you can handle the interminable phone calls, you can quite easily get a 'match'.

Ewan
Ewan McNab Send private email
Friday, November 29, 2013
 
 
Sorry to hear about your situation, OP.

> I am currently working as a contractor doing pretty complex
>  c#/C++ vs2013 ecosystem work and LinuxVM w/Java
> (eclipse)/ ruby (for scripting) for a princely sum of 31 bucks
> an hour  - in  a fortune 50 company too, in a medium sized
> east coast MSA.

What's an MSA?

My first reaction is you should be actively seeking other work and quit as soon as you can.  Not just for yourself but for the good of the field.  I'm not crazy about hearing about 25 yr olds making big bucks, but I also think that you might as well be making more like 50/hr--70 hr + benefits, if not more. 


> I was making smalltalk with the lady who cleans and also

You program in Smalltalk?  (ha ha)

> manages the cleaning staff, she told me she gets $17. I felt
> terrible, I don't make that much more. She is 27 with a GED.

Ehh... You make 82% more than her, per hour.  Although does she have benefits?

> phone. I also went out with her a few times, but I felt
>  more like a software trainer than a date.

Well there's a big problem, too.  That's probably why there weren't further dates.  Steer the conversation better next time.

> I guess I do pretty good work.

Easy now, big shot.  Don't sound so cocky.  I'm kidding.  I say this because I get a subtle between-the-lines attitude of defeatism coming through your post, and this line jumps out as *possibly* (not sure) and indicator of that.  You probably do very good work.


>  The contracting company won't even give me a cost of
> living increase, and I'm under the hours to get benefits.
> I was under the impression that corporate contracting
> paid well. I took this job because I was self employed prior
> and wasn't having much luck finding something good, and
> of course back then the job market was dog doo.

Sounds like you are getting ripped off, hard, and only because you are putting up with it.  They won't "give" you more because you have shown that you are perfectly willing to work for three years at this insulting salary.

> I look at Glassdoor and see companies (I'm on the east coast)
> paying well over 6 figures, but on the other side of the fence
> companies (even very large household names) are looking to
> pay the least (and REALLY DEMAND A LOT).  We have
> programmers in India making peanuts(doubt if they are
> over 5K year), and people like me(I'm not the only "well
> paid" contractor).

That's right--that's the market.  It's highly heterogeneous.  You need to realize that if some can be on the higher side of that space, you can, too.  What makes the difference?  My guess is it is a set of a few factors:

* Luck (which can be enhanced through exploration, networking, perseverance, adaptive learning, etc)

* Goodness of fit (the companies that pay big bucks may want very specific resume items, buzzwords)

* Actual quality of programmer (including a clear record of what that programmer has produced, particularly if what he/she produced is impressive)

* Bullshit (plays a huge role in life, unfortunately.  Did the person "sell" themselves well enough?  etc, etc.)

>  Sometimes to meet deadlines I will work off the clock,

Why would you do that if you're an hourly contractor?  Reading that is irritating.

> I'm not saying anything though because I worry I will lose
> this job.

Of course--this is the heart of the problem.  The ability to walk away from something is super powerful in any dealing.  You don't have it, or think you don't, which amounts to the same thing.

> People are very impressed with my work and I come up with
> clever solutions.

Have you spoken to the client about the situation?  Have you said that you are likely to walk away from this if the contracting company can't offer you a much better deal?  (Like twice what you make now?).  I'm not sure, but I think I've read online that speaking to the client in this way is actually a bad idea--sort of really bad form--but I don't know for sure.  But part of me feels that the contracting agency is giving you little choice but to do something to shake things up.  (For all you know, the client is paying them $100k/yr for you and they are keeping most of it).

> I asked about full time and got a ton of runaround,

Define "runaround"?  Did you push back?  You can't accept anything other than a clear explanation and you need to have the "leverage" (ugh, but I'll use it) to know that their refusal to negotiate will have consequences of you leaving.

> I detected an overtone that I may be too expensive. Now that

Of course--that's a great tactic on the part of whoever you spoke to.  Make you think you should be grateful for whatever scraps they deign to give you.  Classic.  I've seen this before in very different job settings, from academic research and teaching to middle management, bookkeeping, being a maître d'/waiter, secretary, etc.  It's the #1 play, really.

> they see I'm content with this pay for almost  3 years (and
> give nearly the productivity of a full timer) they have no
> incentive to change anything.

Right.  It's your fault for the "content" part.

> They also know I'm single and all the guys there have
> family and kids, so they figure I need less.

No.  This should apply to all the 26 year olds making way more than you do, but it doesn't.  There is little "justness" in wage considerations.  I mean, just think about the 50 million or so U.S. family-having workers who live under or near the poverty line!

> I tried applying to other companies with very little success.

How many?  When?  How?

> I mentioned this salary to some places and they judged me
> on the spot.

How do you know that?  How *could* you know that?

> The work is in a niche and hard core algorithms(to the
> point sometimes  of converted to C++ scientific software
> that ran on 1950s computers in Fortran) that many

Mmm, that sounds exciting.  (kidding). 

> recruiters don't understand and it don't have buzzwords like
>  NoSQL/SQL, web, and asp.net MVC (stuff I could probably
> pick up in two weeks). 

Then why the heck don't you?!

> I do know SQL(worked with it for 5 years, but over 10 years
> ago) but that is worthless now if it isn't recent experience. 

Why?  Can't you just have  a set of bullet points on your resume that lists your skills and one of them is SQL?  If they ask you, "Do you know SQL?" you say, "Yes.  Yes, I do." (in the voice of the judge from Airplane II).

> have PHP/MySql/JS/MongoDB experience from independent
> work but no real product to show off(I can send code snippets).

Then make a product, a MVP, something.

> One offer I got .. I sh$# you not .. was for $21hr, 40/hrwk doing
>  basic .net/db work. It was not a mom and pop place either, a
> medium sized private company.

Yuck.

> I am contractually (had to sign this in person) not allowed to
> write or reveal the big corporation I work for (only the body
> shop), and the name of the place makes working for yourself
> more impressive. Think "FY Tech Resources" with a 3 page
> website that my boss said the owners daughter designed as
> an 8th grad project.  The company is owned by the wife or
> cousin of some bigwig in the company and they use it for
> payrolling.  If I (as HR) looked at a resume with the last two

I really didn't understand what you're trying to write here, but am intrigued.  It sounds like you're saying that this Fortune 50 company, or the contracting company, has a web site that is three pages long and was done by an 8th grade girl.  Is that right?

> I think the competition in software is extremely competitive
> for a good job. I see even our positions get flooded with tons
> of resumes, and employers have the pick of the litter. And if

I don't know at all what the situation truly is, but I have read several times online recently that there are TON of BAD coders out there, and that many companies struggle to find good people. 


> I was out of work for a few years and tried to launch a few
> products but honestly I don't have the drive/attention
> span/secret sauce/whatever to truly do independent work
> and be a "Jack Dorsey/Joel  S" type. If I could do that I
> wouldn't need an employer, right? I didn't make much money.
> Obviously this isn't for everyone.  I know making anything in

Again, you sound really defeatist.  Joel S has his own sizable company in a Manhattan highrise.  I don't think you need to attain *that* in order to be a successful independent software entrepreneur.  Look at the other people on this forum.

> the appstore is a losing battle, especially entering at this point.

I don't know if that is right.  I do get the sense that the statistics aren't very favorable.

> any return on your efforts. She keeps bothering me about
> snapchat all the time. I told her we don't have Stanford degrees
> and connections...you sort recyclables and I sort pointers.

Again, super defeatist.  Aren't there quite a few success stories of people who didn't have such connections?  And isn't it easier than ever before in history, by a factor of 50,  to *make* connections?  (Online, or at conferences, meetups, hackathons, startup weekends, etc).

> I also know that as you get older in this field you become less
> and less valuable. Even my company offered early retirement

Defeatist.  Apparently the average age of startup entrepreneurs is about 40.  (No idea if that is really true, but there are at least quite a few examples of it).

>  to some older SW engineers. They hire guys out of college or
> maybe 27 is the max. I notice guys my age are senior

My friend just got a job in IT at about 42, with a great group of people, at a managerial level, at a pay that was more than he expected.  He has a lot of linux administration experience and some management experience, but less programming ability than you seem to have.

> So, at this point, I am thinking that I should just get out of this
>  field and look into something else, even if it pays less. I'm
> thinking maybe sales or something. With my past experience
> as described, I don't think I even have a running chance of being
> considered for a decent job.

And the defeatism continues!  Wow, you are solid on that. 

I agree with Andy that sales should take a restraining order out on you to not come within 500 feet.

> Finally I'm wondering if I should take another risk, either by
> myself or with Janet the cleaning lady, and try to start some
> ISV or whatever.

I think you should:

* Actively look for another programming job that pays the equivalenet of $85k/yr + benefits--or more, but this time pull out every stop to network, bullshit yourself up more, bring higher value skills to the table, do not reveal your current salary if at all possible, cite a work-in-progress project that you have created, etc.
* Start working on that Android app or a web app (or a desktop app)  in your spare time, without Janet.
* Start learning as many hot/hip/great new tools as you can
* Read books about having a more positive attitude
* Date women closer to your age, but if you do date Janet again, make it a rule that Java is not to be discussed.  Unless it is the coffee or the island.

Happy Black Friday.
Racky Send private email
Friday, November 29, 2013
 
 
As others said, find new contracting work, don't reveal your current salary, and don't let yourself get bullshitted or taken advantage of.

You're a single guy with no family, so it's really easy for you to move too, right?

In fact, you should consider moving out of the US. See, the US economy is swirling down the toilet, just like most Western countries', so it's no wonder there's a lot of competition for jobs. Move somewhere with a more vibrant economy, and you'll have much more options there.  You could even start a business - check out "Lean Startup" etc, find a group of people with a real need, fulfill it, and they'll give you money!

Chile could be a good option. You'd need to learn Spanish though, I guess. But in Hong Kong or Singapore, you should be able to get by comfortably with English only.

There's a whole rest-of-the-world out there. Unlike most guys our age, you're free to explore it!
Bonita Applebum Send private email
Friday, November 29, 2013
 
 
Singapore is actually pretty darn expensive. OP couldn't afford to move there at this stage.



AC
Reluctantlyregistered Send private email
Saturday, November 30, 2013
 
 
Janet the cleaning lady sounds smart and has some business sense.

She dated you and picked your brain. You should pick her brain too for tips on how to manage your employer and career. I feel sure she has some good ideas.

If you find her attractive, it might be a smart pairing.
Scott Send private email
Saturday, November 30, 2013
 
 
"She always jokes with me that her first language was Java and mine was Basic and that is why I'm in trouble. "

Man, Janet is quite insightful.

It's hilarious that she writes Java apps, start to finish, which she SELLS and makes money from, and you have tunnel vision seeing her as only a cleaning lady.

I am positive Janet is smarter than you. I am also positive it would be a very smart move for you to let her handle product design, marketing and sales, and you guys share the proceeds. If you get married this set up is really an ideal scenario for a small software company.
Scott Send private email
Saturday, November 30, 2013
 
 
Ok, thanks for the good advice, I read all of it. Maybe I'm a bit bitter because I've been working 3 years with no vacation, no sick days, etc and I'm being paid under $1000 a week gross to work 40+ hours (you could do the hourly math, I am also working off the clock).  The company is tricky that they never list hour counts, I just see a lump sum salary. When I was hired I was given an hourly rate and an "approximate" number of hours. I don't report any hours though. Originally I worked that amount of hours.

She gets benefits and time off, so if you equated the two the pay gap is smaller. Also, don't forget I have an EE/CS degree(I know, worth toilet paper) . Do a quick search of STARTING salaries for this education and see why I'm pissed. Even if I lived in a place with the lowest cost of living(far from it) I'm being screwed.  She has a GED.

I've seen the invoice to the agency and they don't get much more than I do. It is some payrolling arrangement, I was hired initially by the big corp....

As for Janet, she is a bit too tall for my taste (I don't like women who are close to  my height, about 5'11" and small chested), she is attractive though, in good shape because she does a lot of walking and physical labor on her job. South American, looks(her face) a bit like Adrian Lima. She also talked about marriage and kids and I'm not ready to settle down yet.  She is a bit old fashioned too, not a bad thing, I respect that, but I'm just not attracted. When I told my boss the story he said our company recognizes all sexual orientations (Implying I'm gay or something). He said if he was single he would be all over her like bees on spring blossoms. He said you are not exactly a ladies man and if you cut her loose you are probably going to be an old bachelor. Maybe I'll think twice about her, nothing is final. Also not thrilled that she has a GED and I have masters. She is real smart though.

Maybe she is smarter than me, she does take action I wouldn't be surprised if one day I see her doing software down the hall. Some people know about the apps she wrote and the scary thing is she will make more than me. She did mention to me once she would never want to be a coder in this company. She said she cleans many blackboards and notices how every project has to be agile even though in some cases it shouldn't be. This is true, sometimes it gets very annoying when there are dependencies beyond your control.

Since I can't really  use anyone in this company for a reference anyway (all they can ask is dates and pay), I may rewrite my resume so I can get a manager position.  I have a co-worker that would gladly vouch for me.

Anyway thanks for the feedback.
donewithsoftware Send private email
Tuesday, December 03, 2013
 
 
You say you are 40 and not "ready to settle down yet"?
cn Send private email
Tuesday, December 03, 2013
 
 
You keep mentioning degrees- EE/CS , masters , GED.
Life is not college. Life is like highschool. You seem to be hampered by this notion that income is a function of degrees. I am sorry were brainwashed. That might have been true 20 years ago but no longer. Also realize that in US at least, STEM workers are not valued like they used to. They changed the rules on you and you don't want to move on.

Here is an experiment for you.
What would you do if you only had a highschool diploma? How could you prove your technical skills to a stranger without being able to show them your diploma?
cn Send private email
Tuesday, December 03, 2013
 
 

This topic is archived. No further replies will be accepted.

Other recent topics Other recent topics
 
Powered by FogBugz