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Andy Brice
Successful Software

Doug Nebeker ("Doug")

Jonathan Matthews
Creator of DeepTrawl, CloudTrawl, and LeapDoc

Nicholas Hebb
BreezeTree Software

Bob Walsh
host, Startup Success Podcast author of The Web Startup Success Guide and Micro-ISV: From Vision To Reality

Patrick McKenzie
Bingo Card Creator

Avangate sends me an chargeback summary out of the blue

In a polite way they informed me that they will deduce 200$ from my account due to the chargeabck requests in July.

Only there was no any charge backs in July. And if there was they should have sent me an Email informing me of that fact (as they always did).

Now they are deducing from money I already counted as mine.
Terribly wexed at them this morning...
Didn't expect that.
Shareit! maybe but Avangate...

And to be honest Shareit! may be a bit slow and anoyying but they never did something like this
alexandar Send private email
Tuesday, August 20, 2013
Maybe contact them to ask them to specify which transactions they are referring to. It is unlikely to be a fraudulent shakedown. More likely they didn't send the chargeback report, or you didn't get it.

Anyway, ask them to justify their statement.
Scorpio Send private email
Tuesday, August 20, 2013
They always email me whenever there is a chargeback. Often it is because someone didn't recognize 'Avangate' on their credit card statement and can be resolved with a polite email. Are you sure their email didn't go in yout spam folder?
Andy Brice Send private email
Tuesday, August 20, 2013
@ Andy
I'm sure. I always check Spam folder- every once in a while a normal email ends up there so I have learnt long ago to check Spam every morning.
As a matter of fact it was the spam folder where I found their email I was referring to
alexandar Send private email
Tuesday, August 20, 2013
I sent them an email asking for an explanation and there has not been an answer yet (24h+)
alexandar Send private email
Wednesday, August 21, 2013
The same thing happened to me. They diducted an amount for chargback in July even thoug there was no any charge backs in July.

When I contacted them they claimed the received chargebck for the order that was placed 2012-04-24

Looks very suspiciously
Tim_Thaler Send private email
Wednesday, August 21, 2013
@ Tim
Did they tell you order details like name and email of the customer?
Or did they tell you just tha date?
I mean no matter what they must disclose exact order with all the details because if they don't we have no way of checking if it really happened or not so they can just do that whenever it pleases them.

I'm not saying they did it on purpose but in principle we must know who exactly asked for chargeback.
alexandar Send private email
Wednesday, August 21, 2013
@ Tim
I just noticed that we both have 'desktop' in our url and probably in company name
(mine is desktopmetronome.com)

Could that be something to do with it?
alexandar Send private email
Wednesday, August 21, 2013
48h no answer even though i sent email to 4 different emails (support,pay,info and supportplus @avangate)
Now it really starting to look suspicious...

If there is no answer till next 48h (which is too generous considering the fact that that have always replayed in a couple of hours) I'm moving to shareit completely

This is unacceptable...
alexandar Send private email
Thursday, August 22, 2013
Well they answered...
Deduction was from a chargeback 18months ago...
They did send chargeback request but as i said 18 months ago...

Now i wander how many of those they may have

So all in all everything is regular and legal  but somehow does not feel right
alexandar Send private email
Thursday, August 22, 2013
At least you know now, but 18 months seems like a very long time.
Scorpio Send private email
Thursday, August 22, 2013
Is there a chance you didn't understand them? chargeback reason just doesn't make sense…. chargebacks can be filed up to 4 months from the purchase date, in rare clumsy cases you will get it 6 months after the order date, 18 months is not an option, so there is something else behind it...
Valeriu Braghis Send private email
Thursday, August 22, 2013
@ Valeriu
Chargeback is requested by customer only a month after purchase.
But they (avangate) are deducting  it now 18 months later

Which is ridiculous.
alexandar Send private email
Thursday, August 22, 2013
...so I guess they gave you an interest-free loan for 17 months.

Weird way to do business.
Scorpio Send private email
Thursday, August 22, 2013
The same thing happend to us. They've deducted >$100 from last month's payment without any notification and without the deducted amount showing up under their accounting section.

We've contacted them by e-mail and they've replied these were deductions for chargebacks from 2012.

Today the same amount was deducted AGAIN from the current months balance, this time the chargebacks showing up as a negative under the account.

We've contacted them regarding the double charge, so far received no answer...
wmkr Send private email
Thursday, August 22, 2013
Something is fishy...
I'm thinking of moving away from them

They explained it to me that there was a "chargeback status: open" flag to the order that they took the money for. But after reducing my payment that flag still remains saying 'open' so they may do the same thing next month...And their reply wasn't in their usual polite-vague  way-it was a cold answer like:
'We sent you a screenshot of your control panel where it says so" and than followed screenshot...  Which even more enraged me because they were clearly logged in using my username and password...
alexandar Send private email
Thursday, August 22, 2013
We are also considering to drop them. Just received an e-mail from them a couple minutes ago, notifying us that X amount will be withheld from the July payments. Since the payments for July were sent for almost a week, the notification e-mail was created and sent today.

Also still no answer on the double charge issue...
wmkr Send private email
Thursday, August 22, 2013
@ Alexandar and @ Tim

Sorry to hear about your frustration and please accept our apologies for the delay in answering your emails.  Needless to say, we appreciate your business and your feedback.  We take customer feedback very seriously and want to provide you with a detailed answer on all the items listed in your post.

Specifically regarding chargebacks, as already stated in this tread, shoppers can open a chargeback dispute even months after an order is placed (some processors have a 6 month limit, others do not have a limit).  There have been some delays between when processors pull back the money from us, and when Avangate is informed that the chargeback is lost.

Avangate’s practice to date was to pay vendors for all orders, regardless if there was an open dispute against the order.  When a chargeback is closed and lost, Avangate (i) would only then reflect the chargeback in their reports and (ii) take the cash from the vendor’s next payment to reflect the chargeback amount. If the chargeback is won, then clearly there is no payment deducted from the vendor.

We are continuously working to improve our operations and have increased the level of automation in refund management to reduce the time to reflect chargebacks.  Strict procedures are followed regarding handling as well as disputing chargebacks and details on all chargebacks will be provided to you via email.

 You can also export chargeback details in the Order Search Report in the Avangate Control Panel by adding the “Chargeback Status” and “Chargeback Reason” to the exported columns.

@ Wmkr
Please send us an offline message with your company details to be able to investigate your situation and we will look into it.

We strive to respond within 48 hours to payment related issues. We apologize for any delays and appreciate your patience as we are handling all requests with high priority.

You are a valued client and we hope you will continue to use our services going forward.

Thanks again for your comments and feedback.

Avangate Team Send private email
Thursday, August 22, 2013
@ Avangate team
OK, this is a bit reassuring that you answered here.
The trouble was no the chargeback itself- we all know that payment procesors blame it on the vendors- that's all right.
The trouble was that you sent payment report on the 1st of month stating one amount and than on the day when the payment was due te arrive  (around 16th) you sent an email informing that it will be an different amount.
What if I already arranged to pay a  3rd party (or whatever bills I had) with the money that I counted on  and than that amount was changed without warning...

That's what made so much fuss- inconsideration on your part.
I believe you had some finacial issues of your own (summer is low season for software all right) and did hastily what you did not thinking much about us.

Hope it won't happen again because I have really been satisfied with your service for years now  (you even won a couple of chargebacks indeed).
Thanks again for replying here and  for explanation
alexandar Send private email
Friday, August 23, 2013
@ Avangate team

It seems that your chargeback report is not working right.

I can see open disputes from 2010... It is hard to belive that you have been disputing this cases for 3 years :)
Tim_Thaler Send private email
Friday, August 23, 2013
@ Avangate
Yes I too have a few 'open chargebacks' from 2009,2010,2011...

Some of them you specifically sent me an email years ago that you wan chargeback dispute.

Because the reason given the for last month deduction from my account was 'there was an open status' now I don't see what shell prevent you from doing this again?

Shell we continue our discussion here or we had better switch to normal email corespondence?
alexandar Send private email
Saturday, August 24, 2013
won not 'wan'
alexandar Send private email
Saturday, August 24, 2013
@Avangate Team

We have already sent 2 e-mails regarding this issue. More than 3 days have passed and still no reply...

Can you please post a EU or US phone # where accounting can be reached for further explanation as it looks like it can take ages for email communications. Thank you!
wmkr Send private email
Sunday, August 25, 2013
Can anyone recommend some serious billing companies US or EU based, as it looks like the Avangate situation is leading nowhere...

Seems like basic math is way to complicated for the Avangate accounting team.

Thank you!
wmkr Send private email
Tuesday, August 27, 2013
Wyatt O'Day Send private email
Tuesday, August 27, 2013
I'm still folowwing this thread, after all I started it,  but they contacted me and said they are working on 'closing' open chargebacks.  So I'll wait and see what that means and will report here of progress
alexandar Send private email
Wednesday, August 28, 2013
>>>Can anyone recommend some serious billing companies US or EU based

Please let me know if we can assist you at PayPro Global. Our headquarters are in Toronto, Canada, but we also are present in Europe. I would be happy to prepare a demo account for you with no effort or obligations from your side.

We offer:

- API: full supervision of your existing SaaS clients, control the charges amount, update the customer details, pull your sales reports via API and manage them yourself on your DB
- Advanced automation
- A very flexible subscription handling mechanism 
- We deliver the highest order page conversion rates in the industry
- Fast support (average response rate of 38 minutes for vendor support)
- All the necessary additional accounting documents required by the authorities of your country of residence
- Competitive commission with no sign-up fees or hidden fees. No obligations or exclusivity agreements.

and many more

Valeriu Braghis Send private email
Wednesday, August 28, 2013
I got an email today from avangate informing me that they won one of the chargebacks that they deducted money for from my last payment, so I suppose they will put that amount back to my account. I'll keep you posted.
I have had nothing but good experience with them for years so I'd be really glad that this whole thing turns out good
alexandar Send private email
Saturday, August 31, 2013
Today they sent me an email where they inform that all chargebacks are 'closed' now and that it will be reflected in my September payment.
I suppose that means they will repay the money they charged me when all this started. (because they 'won' the chargeback dispute so it was their mistake,they never admited it in words nor apologized but that's OK as long as they pay due money)

Also I see in their control panel an option to export report specifically for chargebacks (which wasn't available before I believe)

So they did their job, I'm glad to say
alexandar Send private email
Wednesday, September 04, 2013
@alexandar  - I'm glad you're problems got sorted out

Unfortunately for us the situation is still the same. The chargebacks which were deducted from the July payments, have been deducted again from the sales from August. Just received the invoice from Avangate which reflects these deductions.

So far lots of bs and confusing answers coming from pay@ but no facts...

I guess we'll have to wait until they send out the payments for August on the 16th this month and we'll decide what to do next.

Also would like to thank other members for their billing companies suggestions!
wmkr Send private email
Wednesday, September 04, 2013
I think I have it figured out:

Until now Avangate paid you even the sums for the orders that were under a chargeback process. From 1st of August I understand they changed that and will not pay you for these orders until the chargeback process is finished (if you win the process they send you the money they already witholded).

How about the sums for the orders that were in a chargeback process prior to 1st of August 2013 and for which Avangate already paid you?

From an email they sent me today I understand  that they will deduct these sums from my future payments (the entire sum in my case is divided in 5 smaller sums that will be deducted over the next 5 payments) until they have deducted all the OPEN chargebacks. If I win one of the OPEN chargebacks (status becomes WON in the exported csv reports) then they will send me the money.

Today they sent me an email explaining some of the above however I found out the hard way just as you guys did: In August I recieved  (for the July month) $400 less than in the Avangate Invoice.

Looking through the exported csv reports I see that I have OPEN chargebacks that were filled in June 2012. Will these ever turn to LOST or WON? If they remain *OPEN* forever I will never see the money again.

Anyway I give Avangate a double minus for lack of communication and for not replying to my emails.
Octavian Naicu Send private email
Monday, September 16, 2013

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