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SEO de-optimization? Another scarry one from google...

alexandar Send private email
Monday, July 01, 2013
 
 
What's the problem? If the new algorithms focus on content rather than SEO mumbo-jumbo, then good.
Kevin Walzer Send private email
Monday, July 01, 2013
 
 
In fact, it benefits small players who can only focus on content OR seo, but do not have resources or knowledge for both.

All one needs to do is to produce some jolly good content!
Vladimir Dyuzhev Send private email
Monday, July 01, 2013
 
 
@ Vladimir "All one needs to do is to produce some jolly good content!"

Content is the biggest problem because, what everyone seems to overlook, not everything can yield great content...
Take for example what you do:
What content can you invent? You can tell a bit about you, mention projects you worked on and that's pretty much it. You can't go page after page like 'Boy Am I good in java...you should have seen me...how wisely I proceeded in developing that application..."
alexandar Send private email
Monday, July 01, 2013
 
 
So, we're back to "build it and they will come", where great content rules. Don't see a problem with that.

As an additional benefit, hopefully it'll eliminate some of those SEO snake oil pedlars too.
Scorpio Send private email
Monday, July 01, 2013
 
 
> What content can you invent?

Oh, a lot!

I actually have a list of articles to post. Articles educating my clients (business folks who often not so fluent in technology as many would expect) about business implications of technical decisions, in plain business terms. E.g. "What lack of transactions may do to an order system?" (mismatch between orders and receivables etc) and similar topics.

My problem is, between 10 hrs/day consulting and 2 kids I have very little time to produce that content. But I'm working on it, and I have some drafts.

Now, suppose another contractor has same skills as me, but actually has a better time management and thus did produce the great content. Where should Google send the visitors, to me or to him. Clearly, to him. He has content. I don't. It is that simple.

...

So I see the "Content Is King" rule as fair.

It is much harder to fake good content than to fake links.

My understanding that links still work and will work for quite some time. But Google tries to move emphasis from fake-able "google juice" sources to less fake-able.
Vladimir Dyuzhev Send private email
Monday, July 01, 2013
 
 
I don't think anyone knows.  I've seen a downturn in traffic on 3 of my key sites since early October last year (by about 20-30%).  The sites are completely unrelated and have no cross linking.  Two of them don't even sell software.  There's never been any link-building done on any of them and each of them had been ranking well for a number of years.  Each has several hundred pages of content, all unique, all very on-topic, and 90% of pages are 500 words plus.

Since October I've been actively reading most SEO forums to try to recover some of the lost traffic.  Based on what I've read I've taken the following steps (with no effect)

-Do not push the keyword, promote the brand
-Re-write pages to make them longer and more compelling
-Make sure all pages are W3C compliant and are correctly structured
-minify ccs/js and whatever (never going to make a difference but have to try)
-optimise internal linking structures
-Create "link-bait", free resources, free tools
-Promote through social media
-Mix up <title>, <h1> tags and internal link anchor text (gosh what a lot of work that was) on thousands and thousands of pages.

The list goes on.  I even contracted an "SEO Expert" who posts on these forums and even he had nothing useful to suggest.  In the end none of it has made a jot of difference. And I still see sites with little or no content, thousands of links from forum signatures and so on ranking above our three key sites.  The one thing I refuse to do is link building so I must confess I have not tried that.  Now all of that sounds like a whiny "why doesnt my site rank higher post" and perhaps it is.  But it taught me that I was wasting my time.

Basically I've given up on it.  Now we're concentrating on giving the visitors we do get the best experience possible.  Creating more usable web pages, more interesting content, more and more free tools, and engaging with our existing base of customers and users in a much better fashion.  Of course we're also working on making our software convert better, making pricing simpler to understand, and (hopefully) providing a better value proposition.  Funnily enough 3 months of hard work in this area has had immediate benefits. 

6 months of trying to work out why Google didn't love us so much and trying to "fix" it didn't do anything.  I strongly recommend you spend more time working on the customer rather than working on Google.
Mark Nemtsas Send private email
Monday, July 01, 2013
 
 
Well... What would stop google from doing this:
They see some guy is ranking well, selling something and not buying any adds. It is just so easy to pull him down by 50% and see if he will resort to adwords.

Who controls this? This part of their algorythm must be open for public (or those who are in charge of such things)
alexandar Send private email
Tuesday, July 02, 2013
 
 
@Alexander

There is always the suspicion that Google would game their search results to "force" people to buy adwords.

However I don't think it is likely.  It would be an extremely high risk strategy for them and would probably result in them facing hundreds of millions of dollars and euro's of fines and even the threat of being broken up.

Every large corporation from News Corp. to Microsoft, Facebook & Apple would be baying for their blood.

It would break the trust they have with advertisers and the public and open up a space for competitors.
TomTomAgain Send private email
Tuesday, July 02, 2013
 
 
+1 TomTomAgain.

I can imagine the headlines now:

"Google shows rubbish results to extort cash from users and businesses".

The EU would go nuts and Google knows that. Their business depends on the good will of both advertisers and users, I don't think they're going to intentionally stir up a shit storm in both camps.
Jonathan Matthews Send private email
Tuesday, July 02, 2013
 
 
well it wasn't likely either that Murdoch should tap phones...Yet he did...And it didn't hurt him much
alexandar Send private email
Tuesday, July 02, 2013
 
 
> This part of their algorythm must be open for public

Must? o_O

Or else what?... ;-|

You're going to block all traffic to your site coming from Google?
Vladimir Dyuzhev Send private email
Tuesday, July 02, 2013
 
 
@ Must? o_O
Or else what?... ;-|

There is nothing dearest to me than when Russian people correct my English
alexandar Send private email
Wednesday, July 03, 2013
 
 
I think he was correcting your thinking, rather than your English. ;0)
Andy Brice Send private email
Wednesday, July 03, 2013
 
 
+1 to Andy.

Yes, it was about the idea that someone can bully Google, or any other company, into opening up their most preciously guarded secrets.
Scorpio Send private email
Wednesday, July 03, 2013
 
 
Dmitry Leskov Send private email
Wednesday, July 03, 2013
 
 
2 great articles Dimitry




AC
Reluctantlyregistered Send private email
Wednesday, July 03, 2013
 
 
Dmitry even...
Reluctantlyregistered Send private email
Wednesday, July 03, 2013
 
 
Mark Nemtsas  thank you for sharing this experience with us. It would take many months for each of us who are serious about our content and our sites to try all of those things ...to end up with no gain.

I myself have never linked any of my properties in any other site I own and have never done any link building. (Not) Doing that for years I have only seen benefits, like seeing my competitors being removed from the index, while I gained positions! Of course it is not always candy, google is a machine and mistakes happen (all the time), but I'm sure I (and you too Mark) will be rewarded in the end, because of the SERVICE that I provide to my visitors (yes! providing well written content IS a service)

I have a couple of questions to ask you. Did you try writing new content? In my own experiments I have seen that google values too much sites that post new content often (and for this reason also new sites are also tested in good search positions all the time, so you might see some of your new competitors outrank you briefly, from time to time). And if you do write new content, don't post it all at once. Keep a steady pace... one per day, week or month...

One more question: Is your site full of google ads, or your competitors? Another way to ask this question: what is "above the fold" in your site? Content? Ads? In your competitors site? We all have heard stories how google punished sites with no useful content above the fold. Also one other thing: perhaps a google-ads-free site is not promoted as much as a google-ads-full site, or the opposite. What's in your case?

Thanks.
sogr Send private email
Thursday, July 04, 2013
 
 
> Google is killing organic search anyway

Sad to see "don't be evil" gone. Then again, I didn't believe they could keep it for long even when they first coined the phrase.

Switched all my browsers to Bing. Silly gesture, but I can only do that much.
Vladimir Dyuzhev Send private email
Friday, July 05, 2013
 
 
Google seems to dive into evil enthusiastically!

TL;DR: Google _paid_ Adblock Plus to whitelist its ads. Why is it evil? Because it creates an un-even playing field for other advertising networks.

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.horizont.at%2Fhome%2Fdetail%2Fgoogle-ist-geldgeber-von-adblock-plus.html&act=url
Vladimir Dyuzhev Send private email
Friday, July 05, 2013
 
 
@sogr

*Did you try writing new content?

Yes, I always write new content.  Across all our sites this probably amounts to 3-5 new blog posts per week.  Content is always original, always written by myself or my partner.  It is either purely informational, or aimed squarely at existing users of my products (explaining how to do something), or is structured as a white paper.  I used to do very well with this.  But I think the Google updates of last October devalued a lot of our content, perhaps it was too short or "thin".  This is certainly backed up by Google Analytics which suggests pages that used to do very well are attracting much fewer long-tail keyword hits.  We've been working on generating longer content (think 1000 words plus) and developing a lot more free tools as "link-bait".  But seeing as I don't actively promote these it's too early to say if this is working yet.

*One more question: Is your site full of google ads, or your competitors? Another way to ask this question: what is "above the fold" in your site?

There are no ads on my software sites.  The main landing pages have significant content and the CTA above the fold for 1024x768 screens and higher.  The other sites primarily generate income from Adsense and there is one 460x60 ad above the fold for 1024x768 screens.  A couple of my competitors who out rank me on the software side of things do have ads everywhere.
Mark Nemtsas Send private email
Monday, July 08, 2013
 
 
@Vladimir: I've switched over to AdBlock Edge because of this.

There was an interesting article in The Guardian yesterday:

"Google logic: why Google does the things it does the way it does"
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2013/jul/09/google-android-reader-why
Dmitry Leskov Send private email
Wednesday, July 10, 2013
 
 

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