* The Business of Software

A former community discussing the business of software, from the smallest shareware operation to Microsoft. A part of Joel on Software.

We're closed, folks!

Links:

» Business of Software FAQ
» The Business of Software Conference (held every fall, usually in Boston)
» Forum guidelines (Please read before posting!)

Moderators:

Andy Brice
Successful Software

Doug Nebeker ("Doug")

Jonathan Matthews
Creator of DeepTrawl, CloudTrawl, and LeapDoc

Nicholas Hebb
BreezeTree Software

Bob Walsh
host, Startup Success Podcast author of The Web Startup Success Guide and Micro-ISV: From Vision To Reality

Patrick McKenzie
Bingo Card Creator

Hello Joel on Software Community

My name is Andrew Costache and I work for Pay Pro Global as a marketing specialist. My objectives in this discussion groups are to share fresh ideas, discuss industry trends and of course, gain experience from every post in this discussion group.

I am very excited to join this valuable community. I hope that I will grow into a beneficial fellow member to all of you.

I look forward to sharing ideas with you.

Have a great day ahead and many successful sales, more traffic and more conversions!

Best regards,
Andrew
Andrew Costache Send private email
Thursday, May 30, 2013
 
 
Hi Andrew,

Which is your approximate fee range?

Do you support SaaS vendors, we'll be releasing a service within weeks?
Franco Graziosi Send private email
Thursday, May 30, 2013
 
 
Hello Andrew,

It's baffling that you don't have any pricing information on your site (or that it's so well hidden that neither Franco nor I couldn't find it!)

You do say that there are no monthly fees, which presumably means you're happy to deal with small vendors, which in turn means you're competing with a lot of similar providers whose pricing is readily available.

(I bet you didn't come here for criticism of your website :-) But I'm genuinely curious as to the thinking behind the lack of pricing information.)
Richie Hindle Send private email
Thursday, May 30, 2013
 
 
Gabriel Topala Send private email
Thursday, May 30, 2013
 
 
Very polite spam ;-)
Scorpio Send private email
Thursday, May 30, 2013
 
 
Hello Richie,

Thank you for the feedback. Currently we are involved in an extensive process of rebranding. Soon we will have a completely new revamped website with more easy to access clear information about our services.
Our fees are mentioned on our website in a couple places. The easiest way to find this information is to access Solutions button. http://www.payproglobal.com/solutions.html . Our standard fee is 4.9%+$1 per transaction. You will find that besides the standard rate there are no other hidden fees or costs. Also we never force our partners to sign any exclusivity agreements or oblige them to stay with us in any way.
Also I would like to mention that we have recently launched the Help You Grow Program, especially designed for new enterprises, micro ISV’s or just businesses that currently struggle with sales. This program features a lowered fee of 4.5%+$1, the only criteria to be eligible is to have monthly sales volume below $5000/month. You can find out more about this program by following this link: https://www.payproglobal.com/helpyougrow/index.aspx

In case you have further questions, I would be happy to answer them.
Andrew Costache Send private email
Thursday, May 30, 2013
 
 
Hello Franco,

We don’t only support SaaS, we have a set of features especially designed for this kind of business model.
When we started developing our platform in 2006, we did it with SaaS in mind. We have created a very advanced subscription handling mechanism that remains one of the advanced subscription set of tools on the market today. Our subscription mechanism also supports charge-on-demand model. Besides that, we offer advanced cross-selling and up-selling tools that can be easily adapted to efficiently sell add-ons and additional features.

Please let me know if you have any questions.
Andrew Costache Send private email
Thursday, May 30, 2013
 
 
>I hope that I will grow into a beneficial fellow member to all of you.

I hope so to. That means participating in discussions and not just plugging your service (of which there has been a fair amount already).
Andy Brice Send private email
Thursday, May 30, 2013
 
 
Dear Andy,

I understand what you mean, too much advertising or spamming are unacceptable on a resource as this where people come to share ideas and not sell services.
My job at PayPro Global is to do research and feel the pulse of the industry. I promise to participate in as many discussions as possible and not resume to selling services. My primary interest is to be in the loop with the needs of software authors.
Although I cannot ignore direct answers about the services of the company I work for, I will try my best to keep these as low as possible.

Best regards,
Andrew
Andrew Costache Send private email
Thursday, May 30, 2013
 
 
>I look forward to sharing ideas with you.

Go on then.

Share a relevant idea with us.
TomTomAgain Send private email
Thursday, May 30, 2013
 
 
I vote that this guy should not be hassled. There was no stealth marketing and his post was very straightforward about who he is. He then responded politely and informatively when asked direct questions.

His all-inclusive fees seem reasonable and competitive. Glad to be bookmarking his site.
Scott Send private email
Thursday, May 30, 2013
 
 
OK, when googling for the company name, on the first page of results are two records on "Rip Off" report from angry vendors.

I have no idea what the situation is with these, but I strongly recommend that you guys file a response there so that people who find that page get both sides of the story. Otherwise it looks bad!
Scott Send private email
Thursday, May 30, 2013
 
 
By a pure coincidence, I just paid to a vendor in Ukraine via these guys. No issues.

I was charged HST (sales tax) on the sale though. I do not believe it is right, because I pay to a vendor who's not in Canada, and in that case HST is not applicable.

Pay Pro though is in Canada, but they are mere middleman. I would understand if I paid HST on the fee Pay Pro charged, but not on the whole amount.

But may be I'm wrong in HST laws, gotta double check before raising a stink...
Vladimir Dyuzhev Send private email
Friday, May 31, 2013
 
 
@Vladimir: I believe that for tax purposes Pay Pro are a reseller, rather than a payment service (like PayPal).  In which case you really did buy the product from Pay Pro, who in turn imported it (for want of a better word) from Ukraine.
Richie Hindle Send private email
Friday, May 31, 2013
 
 
Dear Scott,

Thank you very much for your support and your feedback. I appreciate it greatly. Please feel free to drop me a line any time in case I can be of any help to you.

As for the “Rip off” reports in the search results, you probably understand that a service like ours very often attracts businesses that claim to be doing a certain thing, but after a period of time we find out that they’ve been using us for other purposes that don’t comply with our policies or regulations (which is quite damaging to us already). Unfortunately, sometimes we have to take hard decisions to terminate this kind of collaborations. I am not authorized to disclose details about such cases, but these kind of situations make the other parties angry which unfortunately drove them to spread misleading information about our service, trying to damage us.

We try our best to address this kind of reports in timely manner, currently we are in the arbitration process with these two particular reports. Unfortunately the process is slow, but we are 100% certain that it will be ruled in our favor.

Have you even been confronted with false reports about your business? How did you address them?
Andrew Costache Send private email
Friday, May 31, 2013
 
 
Dear Vladimir,

Please give me some time to check this case with our legal department (which is a different time zone) and I will come back with a detailed answer on this issue.

Thank you for your patience
Andrew Costache Send private email
Friday, May 31, 2013
 
 
+1 for what Richie said. 'full service' payment processors usually (technically) buy the software from you and then resell it to the end user. This has the big advantage that they have to sort out all the tax issues. It also means that the tax the end-user pays depends on where you payment processor is based. My payment processor (Avangate) is based in the Netherlands, so my customers pay 19% VAT (The NL rate) rather than the 20% rate where I am based (in the UK).

If you accept payment through PayPal you (not PayPal) are the 'merchant of note' for the transaction and you are responsible for sorting out any VAT or other taxes.
Andy Brice Send private email
Friday, May 31, 2013
 
 
Richie, thank you for your post. What you have said is indeed true.
PayPro Global is an online software reseller based in Ontario, Canada.    The software author is developing and maintaining the product, while we are reselling  it internationally. Being an Ontario Corporation we are required to collect the appropriate Canadian Sales taxes.
Please let me know if you require additional information on this.
Thank you
Andrew Costache Send private email
Friday, May 31, 2013
 
 
4.9%+$1 seems to be the new standard - just received a lure-back message from RegNow! saying that they have re-branded as MyCommerce and "made some core and foundational changes". RegNow! charged 20% last time I cared to check. Now their Silver plan is exactly 4.9%+$1.

In fact, the rate on the Bronze plan is as low as 2.9%+$1 , but it seems  you won't be able to opt out of their "shopper value-adds":

http://www.mycommerce.com/mycommerce/pricing

What is special about PayPro in these circumstances?

(Disclaimer: Technically, we are a RegNow! vendor, but the most recent transaction they processed for us is dated Feb 2002.)
Dmitry Leskov Send private email
Sunday, June 02, 2013
 
 
>"shopper value-adds"

I dread to think what that entails.
Andy Brice Send private email
Sunday, June 02, 2013
 
 
>>"shopper value-adds"

>I dread to think what that entails.

My understanding is that they refer to opt-out stuff such as backup media and maybe something like Extended Download. You even get a small revenue cut if your customer does not opt-out.

But with a product priced in the four-figure range, we would rather have those set up as opt-ins and absorb the costs. This used to be possible with FastSpring - when I asked, they basically said "just set the price to zero". We are yet to try that, though.
Dmitry Leskov Send private email
Monday, June 03, 2013
 
 
>-What is special about PayPro in these circumstances?

Dear Dmitry,

We at PayPro Global understand that every business of selling software online is unique in its own way and requires advanced flexibility and customization. We offer fully customizable order pages, where you can personalize every single detail and field. We do that by offering you dedicated web designers and developers to test and optimize every single aspect of your ordering process. This is unmatched flexibility in the industry. This flexibility also boosts conversion rates and we have data to prove it.

Another strong point of our system is extremely fast support. We understand how important it is to receive quality feedback in timely manner and we deliver the solutions in under 30 minutes. We believe that this is the right way to streamline digital sales.

All this is offered as a standard for the above mentioned price. We don't charge any hidden costs, and we NEVER force our partners to sign exclusivity agreements, because we are certain that they will stay after trying out our system.

If you are curious to find out more, I can set up a demo account for you and you will get convinced yourself.

Regards,

Valeriu
Valeriu Braghis Send private email
Monday, June 03, 2013
 
 
"We offer fully customizable order pages, where you can personalize every single detail and field."

So do many of your competitors. How are you better?

Do you offer a remote post service wherein the order data is sent to my server via HTTP and recieves a license key that is then displayed  to the customer in real-time before they leave the order page?

"support"

Kagi has free phone support. I can always get someone when I call, even on weekends.
Bill Anonomist Send private email
Monday, June 03, 2013
 
 
>>>>So do many of your competitors. How are you better?

To keep this conversation I would mention about trends I would say how we see and do things.

 PLEASE feel free to add ideas so we can use it for future developments as we honestly here to learn more about software producers’ needs.

When we talk about customizable order pages there is always something that the vendor is bound to, in today’s market only huge companies such as Autodesk and Microsoft who drive million in revenue can actually create something that fully fits the requirements. When we built the system the intention was to bring tools that will allow this Flexibility to any company size that thinks big and want to look big.

Design - while you can full control the amount of steps that the order page will have, and the full design of its PC/MAC version and its mobile version with almost no string attached, we will soon release a design API that will you do whatever you ever had in mind, just setup per your needs and just make sure you deliver us the information of the customer to charge (pages will still be hosted on our servers from PCI compliance reasons, but you will get amazing control).

Tracking - all the data in the order pages is fully connected with Google Analytics and Adwords conversion tools with just placing your Google tracking ID on the product settings page in the control panel.

>>>>>Do you offer a remote post service wherein the order data is sent to my server via HTTP and recieves a license key that is then displayed  to the customer in real-time before they leave the order page?

Indeed we do

Server Feedback - Once an order has been submitted, besides the normal confirmation email, we also post your server the IPN (Instant payment notification), which includes all of the customer information besides CC number. We will also give you the option to decide whether you wish to present the registration email on a hosted thank you page or on your server receiving data from the customer to present a personalized message with his license key and download link. In addition in case the order has gone to review, or declined, we also give you the option to get the order status and present the message you wish to present to the client.

>>>>>>Kagi has free phone support. I can always get someone when I call, even on weekends.

That’s true for us as well. We are open 24/7 with no weekends or holidays.
Andrew Costache Send private email
Monday, June 03, 2013
 
 
You are not (prominently) linking to any of your clients' order pages that were customized and optimized with the help of your professional web designers and developers. Any success stories to tell?

You also offer live chat, but do not seem to be using it yourselves - why?
Dmitry Leskov Send private email
Tuesday, June 04, 2013
 
 
>>>>>>You are not (prominently) linking to any of your clients' order pages that were customized and optimized with the help of your professional web designers and developers. Any success stories to tell?


Dear Dmitry,
Good point there. To address that let me present a few examples of our order pages:
https://secure.payproglobal.com/orderpage.aspx?products=120911
In this example you can see the Free Trials feature (more on this here: http://bit.ly/11iNlWV), and traditional cross-selling. Also the page looks very simple, clean and easy to fill. This increases shoppers’ trust – they have the feeling of continuity and simplicity. Moreover, there are well known security logos, a fact that can be checked immediately by clicking on any of them. 30 day money back guarantee button increases customers’ confidence (together with support button). Another very important aspect that boosts shoppers’ confidence is complete design match with the website. When it is very noticeable that they were transferred to a third party provider to complete their order, they get nervous. This usually proves very bad for online sales. That’s why we offer this kind of advanced customization as a standard to everyone without forcing them to pay more to get it.
Phone support numbers are clearly displayed on the page according to IP – your customers can call us anytime to get help from anywhere. Imagine how many of them will feel safer seeing a phone number on the page?
Payment methods are clearly displayed – it is clear to the shoppers how they can pay. For each country, there are specific payment methods that are already implemented (for example iDeal for Netherlads, Giropay for Germany, Webmoney for Russia, Alipay for China, Boleto Bancario for Brazil, local bank transfers in European Union and many more) – they appear in Payment Information according to customer’s IP or when the country is changed (you can check it yourself by merely using VPN). Also, there are standard payment methods available for all countries, such as Check, Cash, Purchase Order. 
To see a good example of add-ons display, please check the following link:
 https://secure.payproglobal.com/orderpage.aspx?products=43984
Also if you would like to see more simplified pages with limited fields, you can check the following:     
https://secure.payproglobal.com/orderpage.aspx?products=111998
https://secure.payproglobal.com/orderpage.aspx?products=114041                 
https://secure.payproglobal.com/orderpage.aspx?products=56194
As you can see we offer advanced design versatility and true customization. Of course many of our competitors offer some levels of customization, but what I’ve seen so far was a pretty limited offer of options. For example if you get a standard package, they limit you to using predefined templates or quite mediocre outdated interface which doesn’t catch very well with the shoppers.
What you can’t see in these order pages is our cross-sell pop-up, which appears only after submitting the purchase. This gives you an additional boost in sales of additional products, which is completely risk-free. If the shopper selects YES, his purchase will be automatically updated and charged the respective amount. If he chooses NO, nothing happens and he will see the Thank You Page (Did I mention it’s completely customizable as well?)
Dmitry, I’ve checked your checkout and I can say with confidence that we can greatly improve it. All you have to do is give us a green light to set up a demo of your checkout process so that you can see all of the aspects in action. This requires absolutely no effort or obligations on your side. I just would like to prove my point.
Moreover, in case you eventually decide to migrate to PayPro Global, after you see the demo and you don’t see any conversion improvement, we will fully refund you all of our fees for all for the whole period you would have stayed with us. This is how confident I am that we can improve your conversion rates. Of course this offer applies to all the members of Joel on Software community.
Also I couldn’t help but notice, that you are from Russian Federation, I would like to mention that we offer dedicated Russian speaking account managers and Russian speaking support.
Andrew Costache Send private email
Tuesday, June 04, 2013
 
 
>>>>>>You also offer live chat, but do not seem to be using it yourselves - why?


It's currently in free beta and we are planning to deploy the final version pretty soon. If you are interested I can give you a free account, just write to me on my e-mail :)
Andrew Costache Send private email
Tuesday, June 04, 2013
 
 
Andrew,

That is one hell of a plug. You should have emailed me privately to avoid moderation. Notice an envelope next to my sig?

What I was saying is that I expected you to link to sample order pages from your site, not from this forum. Or put some screenshots online. Or expose your design tool.

As far as your offer goes, thank you , but a facelift of our current checkout page would take us much less effort compared to setting up all the SKUs in your system. I have not committed to such a facelift  yet only because I believe it won't make any difference for us. A purchase decision for a technical B2B product in this price range is not made or reversed at the checkout page. (For the record, our alternative provider has a much nicer checkout page.)

In any case, I've checked your documentation and you do not seem to support features that are essential for us, such as bundles.
Dmitry Leskov Send private email
Saturday, June 08, 2013
 
 
(For what it's worth, I've been reading this thread with interest, and I wouldn't consider Andrew's response a candidate for moderation.  He was responding to a question in a forum where the response is relevant to the audience - the fact that he was inevitably singing the praises of his service doesn't change that.)
Richie Hindle Send private email
Saturday, June 08, 2013
 
 
>>>>>>you do not seem to support features that are essential for us, such as bundles.

That is absolutely NOT true. We do support bundles. Proof: http://bit.ly/18mJhO9

But thank you for pointing out the gap in our documentation. We considered this feature too simple to set-up to include this in our documentation. We will address this issue ASAP. Could you tell me what other features you weren't able to find there, I would be happy to describe them for you. This kind of feedback is of a great help to us, this way we make e-commerce easier for our partners.

Thank you once again.

Also I would like to apologize to everyone for my very long previous answer. I admit I must have been carried away and I made it too long. I will do my best to keep it much shorter in the future.

@Richie

Thank you very much for your support. This means very much to me. Indeed I was carried away by answering Dmitry’s question, but we live we learn, right?
Andrew Costache Send private email
Monday, June 10, 2013
 
 

This topic is archived. No further replies will be accepted.

Other recent topics Other recent topics
 
Powered by FogBugz