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College Grads and the job market

This touches on a recent thread here ( http://discuss.joelonsoftware.com/default.asp?biz.5.852875.22 ).

I thought it was both relevant and a nice quick read:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323744604578470900844821388.html
BI Baracus Send private email
Friday, May 10, 2013
 
 
This seems pretty off topic. Can you insert your own take on its relevance to get the discussion started?
Scott Send private email
Friday, May 10, 2013
 
 
For example , the speech is fear-mongering but doesn't have many specifics, it's possible he's just saying stuff.

"Mr. McDonald is president of PubMatic, an ad tech company in Manhattan. Previously, he was president of digital for Time Inc."

What does it mean to be the president of an "ad tech" company? What is an ad tech company? How does this qualify him to be making assertions about things which he apparently has neither personal experience in, or citations. Either would be fine. But it seems he is just some random guy with an opinion based on nothing.

I am not saying the substance of his opinion is worthless. It might be 100% true. But I can't cite him since he seems to have no evidence at all. It's just stuff he wants to say, without evidence or experience.

Shouldn't we draw the line somewhere?

In seems to my that both my personal opinions, and yours, on this topic are vastly more valid than this guy's.
Scott Send private email
Friday, May 10, 2013
 
 
I get really sick of reading rhetoric about
- you shouldn't get a degree/masters/phd if you're interested in X. Bill Gates dropped out so therefore you should to, if you want to be successful
and
- I'm a recruiter, here's a rant designed to make my life easier poorly disguised as a list things you can do to get your resume to the top of my pile, because I'm a god.

The first one comes down to street smarts vs. book smarts and the simple answer is, if you are an utter genius then yes, going to higher education will hold you back. But if you're in the other 99.9% of the population it helps to have some theoretical knowledge about the thing you want to be good at. Being self taught doesn't necessarily give good results, we all need a bit of guidance some times. As long as you pay attention in class, you can quickly pick up on the important points that may otherwise elude you.

For the second one; consider all those articles from VCs about how to make "the perfect pitch" (to me).
koan Send private email
Friday, May 10, 2013
 
 
koan, that's a different topic, I think  you didn't read the article. The author is saying that regardless of your degree, you are useless unless you can program in at least two programming languages. Maybe your degree is in art history, or french literature, or maybe it's a trade certificate in welding. You are unhireable as a welder unless you know Python and Haskell.

He limits it to people he personally would hire for "Marketing, sales, or another department unrelated to programming". That "another department" could be anything. Welding. Secretarial. HR. Basketball coach.

(On the degree thing, if you're in the US it's not worth the money, but that's another thread, why not start one today.)
Scott Send private email
Saturday, May 11, 2013
 
 
Scott, I admit I didn't read the article thoroughly at first; but it is another rant about how you can make yourself perfect for joining my company.

He makes a valid point about everyone in a tech-ish company should know something about programming. I've worked in big tech companies where most people weren't as tech savvy as you would expect. The last thing I need is someone from marketing who's done a 3 week "how to write hello world" thinking they know what is involved in engineering a product and telling me how to do my job.

I'm asking myself, what is the bare minimum you would want someone to know for this given situation
1. An understanding of hardware platforms
2. An appreciation of programming languages and frameworks/libraries
3. An understanding of production line manufacturing, assembly, supply chain, RoHS, JIT, TQM
4. An understanding of how design actually works in the real world

I just don't think you can condense this into a summary that a non tech person is going to be able to remember or use reliably
koan Send private email
Saturday, May 11, 2013
 
 
@ Scott 
"This seems pretty off topic. Can you insert your own take on its relevance to get the discussion started?"

How can it be off topic when it is the first post in the topic - topic itself so to say?

Besides you don't seem to need any further prompts to get you talking :)
alexandar Send private email
Saturday, May 11, 2013
 
 
Please note:

> The Business of Software
> A community discussing the business of software, from the smallest shareware operation to Microsoft.

Should I get an MBA, should I get a degree, what company should I work for, what do you think about this interview I took questions have been discouraged here as off topic. This is a forum about issues of interest to business owners, not employees and students. It's not a general software development forum.

The student asking the question was off topic at the time but was tolerated. Now here is another one, hey, since that student posted, let's talk some more. No, in this case it's not even posted by the person who is interested, and furthermore the OP dropped one of these stupid dead links without commentary, so he's not even bothering to spend five minutes giving his own take.

This thread should be deleted.
Scott Send private email
Saturday, May 11, 2013
 
 
(Also, OP posted and ran away, never posted his own take after being asked.)
Scott Send private email
Saturday, May 11, 2013
 
 
Not "dead link", "dead drop", that's the term I was looking for. Or "post link and run".
Scott Send private email
Saturday, May 11, 2013
 
 
@ Scott
"This thread should be deleted."

And will be if there is God, if not something is wrong
alexandar Send private email
Saturday, May 11, 2013
 
 
>This is a forum about issues of interest to business owners

This is a forum about the business side of the software industry. That includes issues of relevance to employees and people who aspire to work in software, not just business owners.
Andy Brice Send private email
Saturday, May 11, 2013
 
 
>>"This thread should be deleted."
>And will be if there is God

Draw your own conclusions.
Andy Brice Send private email
Saturday, May 11, 2013
 
 
The inevitable has finally occurred. BoS has finally devolved into a radical extremist atheist advocacy forum.
Scott Send private email
Saturday, May 11, 2013
 
 
Would it be appropriate to paraphrase jwz and state every forum attempts to expand until it can appease radical atheistic extremists? Those forums which cannot so expand are replaced by ones which can?
RGlasel Send private email
Saturday, May 11, 2013
 
 
Apologies.  It was really meant to be a benign discussion.  In hindsight perhaps it isn't so interesting.  Meh, anyway.  To humor Scott:  My thoughts on this?  Sure, I probably agree to some extent that in *this day and age*, kids graduating from that large, middle-tier swathe of "so-so" colleges would be better off having more practical experience in computer science (language is irrelevant).  Foreign/H2 infusion of developers probably put the squeeze on the them.  Kids from Caltech and Princeton will be fine as they've always been.

I've got plenty of interesting *BoS*-themed anecdotes that perhaps I will share in some days (!)
BI Baracus Send private email
Saturday, May 11, 2013
 
 

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