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Andy Brice
Successful Software

Doug Nebeker ("Doug")

Jonathan Matthews
Creator of DeepTrawl, CloudTrawl, and LeapDoc

Nicholas Hebb
BreezeTree Software

Bob Walsh
host, Startup Success Podcast author of The Web Startup Success Guide and Micro-ISV: From Vision To Reality

Patrick McKenzie
Bingo Card Creator

Sending QA to Pakistan - Request

Someone requested that i talk about how i send my QA to India, and if anyone wants more help i will be happy to talk to them about it just email me.

I feel that sending QA to Pakistan is by far the best way to do testing, you can have 2 - 3 testers simultaneously testing and communicating with you via MSN messenger and have it done in 2-5 hours @ 7.50 Per hour per person, so for about 50 bucks you can have a report on issues and recommendations. I use the company Meidx Inc. based in Rawalpind, Pakistan. Very professional people.
A.J. Pantoja Send private email
Thursday, December 27, 2007
I'm interested to know how you came to the decision to outsource to another country. I understand not wanting to do all the QA on your own both for reasons of time and that you can't catch everything yourself. But I just give out test copies to friends and family. I'm also considering setting up a private beta list for users who want to help test releases. Of all of these I just pay one person and they also handle some support, graphics and other general stuff. Granted I'm not rolling in it at the moment (I'm slowly getting there) but I don't see the need to pay for QA when you can get a lot of QA for free.
Martin Pilkington Send private email
Thursday, December 27, 2007
Er... India and Pakistan are different countries.

And 7.50/hour is about triple the going rate.

And that's not nearly enough testing.

You're either being ripped off, or you're shilling.
Thursday, December 27, 2007
Personally, outsourcing such a core activity (for me, QA is just as important as development, marketing and support) seems like a very shortsighted move

Why don't you keep it in-house (i.e. alongside your development, where it can be most effective) and use external alpha/beta testers to supplement your QA effort instead?
Anna-Jayne Metcalfe Send private email
Thursday, December 27, 2007

Care to post some links?

If you do not have sufficient internal resources to test, I think outsourcing is a smart thing to do. 

Not everyone has clients clamouring to install alpha/beta software. They're pretty sparse in the HR marketplace that I work in.

I test in house but you really don't want silly bugs showing up that could have been flushed out in intense multi user scenario's. Not a walk in the park when your head count is 1.
Thursday, December 27, 2007
15 man-hours of testing is not QA.
The IT crowd
Thursday, December 27, 2007
I am surprised that most of the posters here have jumped onto the bandwagon of criticising outsourcing.

I feel that it is best to outsource QA. I manage a company which does outsourced QA work and I would have my own prejudices but here is my two cents

1) Whatever theory might say, it is not a good idea to colocate QA and development teams together. Practically speaking in any organisation, the dev team is placed on a higher pedestal than the QA team. Many would disagree with me, but sadly that is the truth. When a conflict happens, the QA might be afraid to hold onto its views. The outsourced QA does not have any such hassles.

2) Tracking QA work is easier. We prepare test scripts and a traceability matrix is prepared to ensure that all the requirements are covered. For tracking we make sure that we capture the screenshots for even successful test scripts. The client does a random check of these screen shots to convine himself of the completeness of testing

3) QA is not overtly influenced by other teams. Since the outsourced QA approaches testing in the pure black box testing and the mandate given is to bread the code, the QA adds more value in an outsourced environment. It becomes much more easier for an outsourced QA to compare competitive products and understand how the product can be made better
Mr Own Comp Send private email
Thursday, December 27, 2007
@My Own Comp: It's a question of the size of a company vs the benefit to outsourcing. You talk of teams but from most of his posts I gather that A.J. Pantoja is a one man shop. Unless you are a decent sized company I question the need to outsource your QA, because if you are small the amount of QA should be small enough for you to handle. Of course this depends entirely on the use for the software
Martin Pilkington Send private email
Thursday, December 27, 2007
I didn't see anywhere where the OP said that Pakistan was the only sort of QA that he does.

In any case, if he sells just 2 extra copies of his software per year, he's more than paid for Pakistan QA. It would seem a no-brainer to do it for him, even if he thoroughly QA tests in house as well.

And BTW, can we cut the guy a break?  He comes in here all fired up and excited, and as well as posting questions is also trying to contribute back.  He doesn't deserve the hard time that he's getting in this or some other threads.

Welcome A.J. Pantoja.
S. Tanna
Thursday, December 27, 2007
Wouldn't send anything to Pakistan after today's news...
Thursday, December 27, 2007
> Wouldn't send anything to Pakistan after today's news...

Huh? Because terrorism never happens in New York, Paris, Madrid, London, Istanbul, Moscow, etc.?
Sunil Tanna
Thursday, December 27, 2007
The assassination of Benizar Bhutto was tragic, but punishing the whole populace for the actions of extremist would just add to the tragedy.


Back on topic...

AJ, do you augment your QA with outsourcing or essentially replace it?

I wouldn't discontinue in-house QA, but often you're too close to the software to identify the problems. So I think for a one man shop, getting a second set of eyes to do QA sounds smart.
Nick Hebb Send private email
Thursday, December 27, 2007
OT: Nick, you said what I was thinking, 10X better than I did. Thanks.
Sunil Tanna
Thursday, December 27, 2007
Yes, we are just a 2 man operation, 2 developers. Any developer knows that he or she cannot find errors in his own creation. Friends and family also i feel are too timid to tell you what they really think (design and usability-wise). If you don't have QA in house, i feel that this approach has worked quite well for me.
A.J. Pantoja Send private email
Thursday, December 27, 2007
"Because terrorism never happens in New York, Paris, Madrid, London, Istanbul, Moscow, etc.? "

As a mISV who doesn't have money to waste, I'd rather outsource work to a country that isn't likely to have a civil war any time soon.

THAT's the difference between Pakistan and those other targets you mentioned.

Sorry if that's cold, but there's plenty of other countries willing to take up the slack.
Friday, December 28, 2007
First of all he's talking about spending $50 for an immediate response.

(a) It's $50, so the amount at risk is minimal

(b) The response is immediate. 

It's not like he's sending off thousands and waiting months for a probably delivery.

Second, there's no civil war in Pakistan, you made that up, whole cloth.

Third, there's no evidence that bombing will affect the ability of his supplier to stop supplying their $50 service.

Go troll somewhere else.
Sunil Tanna
Friday, December 28, 2007
"Second, there's no civil war in Pakistan, you made that up, whole cloth."

I didn't say there was a civil war, just that it's likely, which is what several commentators are saying.

But if you read the news as carefully as you read my post, that explains your point of view.

All I'm saying is, given the choice between outsourcing anything between Pakistan and, say, India, I'd choose India right now. $50 or otherwise. Think of it as my own personal trade sanction, if that makes you feel better, I have no interest in supporting Musharraf's dictatorship.
Friday, December 28, 2007
Oh it's about a political sanction now?  A few posts earlier, it was supposedly about the business risks.

BTW does anybody in Pakistan even know that your boycotting trade with their country?
Sunil Tanna
Friday, December 28, 2007
If you're not even going to read what I wrote, there's no point in discussing it further.

You, sir, are the troll.
Friday, December 28, 2007
Nobody entered into business relations with the US after 9/11.

Friday, December 28, 2007
"Nobody entered into business relations with the US after 9/11."

Poor comparison - Bush supporters didn't assassinate John Kerry on 9/11.

Oh, and there was a "slight" reduction in investment in US stocks after 9/11 - billions were wiped off US share values.
Just walkin' past
Friday, December 28, 2007
This really is the most insane side track ever.

There's no reason to believe that the Bhutto assassination will affect the OP's Pakistani supplier's ability to deliver.

Even if it does, the max. the OP is out of pocket is $50.  If he pays by PayPal or CC, the max he's out of pocket is probably $0.

Friday, December 28, 2007
And nobody does any business with Germany after Hitler....

Sorry but I had to say that, It's the law.

Totally Agreeing
Wednesday, January 02, 2008

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