The Business of Software

I've had loads of problems trying to install/uninstall Norton AntiVirus. But it turns out its not even any good at what it is supposed to do:
http://tech.cybernetnews.com/2006/09/04/and-the-best-antivirus-is/

The only thing it seems to be really good at is using system resources:
http://www.thepcspy.com/articles/other/what_slows_windows_down/3

They must get millions in income for this software - how can it be so bad? How can something this bad be the industry leader? Discuss.

It's indeed quite hard to remove this thing. When Norton inks a deal with an OEM, they apparently take that to heart and the anti-virus becomes almost part of the operating system once for all.

You can disable it by simply renaming a couple of its files. More info here : http://www.arstdesign.com/BBS/BulletinBoard.php?qs_id=1018&qs_showall=1

Yup, it's really crap. Yesterday I replaced norton to chaser.


- How can something this bad be the industry leader?

 Cause Norton's sales point is not personal user but PC maker. 'Norton installed PC'.

It's not just Norton. I had McAfee antivirus installed and after a recent "upgrade" of the software I had to remove it from all my machines as it basically exhibited all the signs of the virusses it was supposed to remove (the machines practically ground to a halt).

They then automatically renewed my subscription without asking me. Eventually I got a refund.

When I reflect on this I also realise that I don't think the software has ever actually caught a virus in over 3 years. So I'm going without now...

What I hate is that NAV's privacy guard removes the referrer header *by default*. So for every single norton user out there who hasn't specifically disabled that option, no more info on search keywords etc :(

So even if you're not a norton user, it's making life harder for you.

Did anyone see a public outcry along the lines of "Oh my god! Sites I'm visiting can see the site I was on that linked to them! This is horrible!"? I sure didn't, so I don't see why they have that enabled by default.

Another thing - If you are a norton user, their popup blocker disables javascript error reporting (in IE at least).

Another one to watch out for is Norton Partition Magic.  Google that one -- its almost unremovable, and even can prevent you from installing other partition software.

Its a shame, because I remember Norton software as being really good 'in the good old days' (before Symmantec bought them).

NAV 2003 was the last version (as I can recall) that is somewhat manageable in terms of ease of installation and uninstallation.

I was helping a friend the other day attempt to uninstall NAV 2007 and I was amazed at how difficult it was to remove it!

This is a pain point for users who should be able to EFFORTLESSLY install or uninstall any app desired.

If more software companies start developing software like NAV 2007, I think users may eventually move to having TWO PCs for home use - one that is used exclusively OFFLINE and one that is used ONLY for internet access.

That way you wouldn't even NEED any kind of ant-viral or antispyware software for your home-based PC.

I uninstalled Norton and ended up with this problem: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;177078

Hate that company, now.

I gave up on NAV a long time ago. Here're some more rants about it:
 http://www.shitware.net/Home/tabid/54/forumid/1/threadid/69/scope/posts/Default.aspx 

As for how they make money? Good marketing. That's a good lesson for us little uISVs - Get the marketing right and don't scrimp on it.

>This is a pain point for users who should be able to EFFORTLESSLY install or uninstall any app desired.

This is why I absolutely never download 30 day free demos. What happens at the end of 30 days if I don't buy the product?

There is a free NAV removal tool available on the web somewhere (might have been from Symmantec themselves).

NAV seems to spawn all manner of processes as well.  I always found that annoying.  I have had problems with it from the sys admin angle, as well as in a previous shrink wrapped software project.  Can you imagine how annoying it would be if NAV thought your program was a virus (you know, because it connects to a db) and crippled your program (without any kind of message to the user).  Furthermore, the only way to get the program working again is to completely uninstall NAV. 

Try telling that to someone when they call the tech support line ("yeah, your anti-virus software is interfering with our software.  Yeah, the only way to get rid of this problem is to uninstall your anti-virus software."). 

Eventually we got around this problem by changing the database the program ran on.  It was one of those situations where the last 1% takes 98% of the effort.

Norton is worse than most of the viruses it's trying to protect you from.  I discovered this around 2001, shortly after trying it out on a PC that came with it pre-installed.  I'm not sure how they've managed to stay in business this long.

My beef with mine (NAV 2006) is that it flags a problem and wants to "fix" it if you have Windows' Automatic Updates disabled (or set to manual). 

Why the hell does my Anti-Virus tool need to manage whether or not I have my Windows Automatic Updates running?

I hate both Norton and MacAfee. They both stink. I'm currently dealing with a problem on a client's computer that causes Java applications to run very slowly when the enterprise edition of MacAfee is installed.

Anyway, run as a Limited User and foget about this anti-virus nonsense! I run as a limited user with no virus protection and just scan my machine weekly using a free online scanner from the web. My machine stays nice and snappy and I haven't had any spyware or virus problems.

Some day, live virus scanning will be a thing of the past because everyone will run as the equivalent of a Limited User.

NAV came pre-installed on my Dell. (thanks, Dell.) When I tried to un-install it, half my Office apps stopped working and I couldn't connect to my file server.  I tried the handy un-install fix-up tool from Symantec to no avail. I finally had to restore my hard-drive to the pre-install image which was the only thing that Dell provided (thanks, Dell).  I went through the services list and disabled anything related to Symantec, but I'm still too scared to try un-installing it.  I run behind a firewall and practise safe computing and have never had a virus on my machine, except for the NAV virus!

i have had tremendous problems lately trying to activate my subscription. There instructions aren't even accurate.

McAfee was so much easier to install.

I would like to announce that I am now NAV free.  I have been NAV free for about an hour and so far my computer hasn't blown up.  I installed a firewall with virus, trojan, and spyware protection and I am going to see what happens.  I would note that my normal working process count went from 45 to 35 after uninstalling NAV.

Poor Peter Norton.  I really admired this guy back in the early days for writing comprehensible books and the Norton Utilities were so useful.  Now his name is tarnished by Symantec's "flagship" antivirus solution.  Too bad.

I guess I am not so brave to run without an AV solution.  I've seen the damage that can be inflicted on an unprotected machine, though admittedly, the risk is less than in recent years.  I understand Microsoft runs NOD32 (www.eset.com) and it looks to be a good product but one you'll never see bundled with OEMs.